JASONSPAZ1
New member
Just wondering if anyone has heard anything.
thanks in advance
thanks in advance
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any word on a new version of the Sovereign?
- Thread starter JASONSPAZ1
- Start date
The Sovereign will probaby go down in detecting history as one of the best dectors out there ..... Minelab will probably not support them , and we that use them will be on our own ..... They will probably concentrate on fancier machines with displays and more features for the current generation of dirt fishers ..... and you can be sure that they will cost less to build, yet cost MO MONEY !!!....... That's BUSINESS !!.......Jim
We live in a consumer society, buy it, wear it out, and throw it out. I know that a company can't survive in todays market by just servicing older models. If new people getting into detecting don't research in forums like this, they'll go for the ad hype and go for the machines with the bells and whistles. I'm sure there are loads of people on the forum that have a machine or two that they wish they didn't buy. I have one. Then,..... " I saw the light" and bought a Sovereign GT". My only hope is that Minelab sees that they have a winner in the GT, and upgrades it in small ways to improve it. I would like to see a built in meter, and protection for the switches right from the factory. Lighter shafts would help too. My only hope is that Minelab supports it's loyal costumers and continues to service the Sovereigns. JMHO regards
Ed
Ed
Critterhunter
New member
I've thought about this and if the Sovereign is at risk of being discontinued. I think not, because every company out there has "less complicated" units in their line up to sell to people who don't like the computer age in terms of being loaded down with tons of bells and whistles. With them discontinuing the Musketeer in the US that doesn't leave any non-computer display models left, besides the Sovereign.
For an upgrade it doesn't even have to be electronics in any fashion. Same box, just put a lighter shaft, hand grip, arm cup, and battery in it. Make it so the meter can mount on top of the grip, or at least in it's same location on the shaft that it currently mounts but throw a 50 cent piece of plastic in the box to raise it above the grip to see easier.
As for batteries, how about a lithium Ion battery to cut down the weight, or at least 10 AAA nimh cells in 1000ma capacity to match the old Sub A pack yet be much lighter. With those the current wall "charger" they supply with it will work just fine.
The only electrical modification I'd like to see would be a simple jack installed on the back of the box for a remote PP. They could even sell the remote PP switch as an extra and make it so it easily mounts on the hand grip. Better yet, sell it already installed in a new hand grip so it's as cleaned up in looks and easy to put on the machine in place of the old grip.
Of course that pig of a heavy arm cup should be replaced. 8.8oz is rediculous in terms of how heavy it is.
Throw a version of the Pro Coil on it or contract with Detech to put the 12x10 on it.
Like you said, installing the rubber boot switches at the factory would also help sales.
All the above things would be minor hardware improvements that wouldn't really amount to any more production costs. Very little if any, yet it would make the machine so much lighter and user friendly. Call it a Sovereign XL, standing for Extra Light.
If they were to do anything with the electronics then I like the idea others have had about making Iron Mask adjustable. Keep the regular on/off Iron mask switch, and all the other switches as they are as well. Just change the discrimination dial to where if it drops below a marked line then you are lowering Iron Mask as you go lower, to the point where when it's all the way down it's at zero iron discrimination. Rise it above that scale and it clicks back into normal discrimination with the normal existing range. Nobody who would want to lower or zero out iron discrimination at a site is going to want any other form of discrimination anyway, so I don't see a point in making these seperate controls where you can run some discrimination yet accept iron. Makes perfect logical sense to me to do it that way. You'd still have the normal on/off Iron Mask, which means of course how hard the unit tries to pull a good target out of an iron signal, so this function is still intact, it's just that now you can click the discrimination dial below iron elimination and lower it all the way to total acceptance if you want.
As for the notch, I would like to see an adjustable window range, meaning how wide it is. Make it so you can narrow it down as tiny as to just knock out one specific number, or go so wide that it's roughly double the current width, though it's current 12.5 digit width on my machine is just about perfect for killing pulling tabs. Minelab must have put some thought into that. Also, you'd still have the regular control for notch to move it up and down the scale to position it. So far we haven't had to add more switches or anything like that to the face plate with the above other features, and this can still be true with the notch. They have POT dials that have the main (current notch control) in it's normal place, yet with a smaller pot control on top of that dial to adjust notch width. See how easy that is. No changes to the stock face plate. Even the mod for the discrimination dial doesn't involve new switches, dials, or relocation of things.
The coil cables don't need to be that long. Provide an extension in the box for those who want to hip or chest mount. It's connector would still be well above the water level for people who wade waste deep water hunting, or just throw a water proof connector in the box to use for that.
Finally, a meter should come with the unit that can be thrown on or taken off for water hunting and such just like it is used now. There is no reason for the current meter to cost that much since it's just a basic volt meter and probably costs about $5 or $10 to make. If you aren't going to supply the meter with the unit then at least make it $40 or so. No call for that. Install a back light on the existing meter, which should be real cheap and easy to do on LCD screens and shouldn't even really cost anything in production.
Those are the features I'd like to see. Most of them would cost nothing or pennies to make. In fact, just eliminating the extra aluminum in the overly heavy upper shaft would probably save them more money than all these changes would cost.
Come on Minelab! You can save yourself money or add very little to the cost while not really having to do much at all in any changes to the internal electronics. I bet the perspective buyers for the machine would double. Women, people who don't like heavier machines, those who want the Iron Mask control or remote PP, etc.
For an upgrade it doesn't even have to be electronics in any fashion. Same box, just put a lighter shaft, hand grip, arm cup, and battery in it. Make it so the meter can mount on top of the grip, or at least in it's same location on the shaft that it currently mounts but throw a 50 cent piece of plastic in the box to raise it above the grip to see easier.
As for batteries, how about a lithium Ion battery to cut down the weight, or at least 10 AAA nimh cells in 1000ma capacity to match the old Sub A pack yet be much lighter. With those the current wall "charger" they supply with it will work just fine.
The only electrical modification I'd like to see would be a simple jack installed on the back of the box for a remote PP. They could even sell the remote PP switch as an extra and make it so it easily mounts on the hand grip. Better yet, sell it already installed in a new hand grip so it's as cleaned up in looks and easy to put on the machine in place of the old grip.
Of course that pig of a heavy arm cup should be replaced. 8.8oz is rediculous in terms of how heavy it is.
Throw a version of the Pro Coil on it or contract with Detech to put the 12x10 on it.
Like you said, installing the rubber boot switches at the factory would also help sales.
All the above things would be minor hardware improvements that wouldn't really amount to any more production costs. Very little if any, yet it would make the machine so much lighter and user friendly. Call it a Sovereign XL, standing for Extra Light.
If they were to do anything with the electronics then I like the idea others have had about making Iron Mask adjustable. Keep the regular on/off Iron mask switch, and all the other switches as they are as well. Just change the discrimination dial to where if it drops below a marked line then you are lowering Iron Mask as you go lower, to the point where when it's all the way down it's at zero iron discrimination. Rise it above that scale and it clicks back into normal discrimination with the normal existing range. Nobody who would want to lower or zero out iron discrimination at a site is going to want any other form of discrimination anyway, so I don't see a point in making these seperate controls where you can run some discrimination yet accept iron. Makes perfect logical sense to me to do it that way. You'd still have the normal on/off Iron Mask, which means of course how hard the unit tries to pull a good target out of an iron signal, so this function is still intact, it's just that now you can click the discrimination dial below iron elimination and lower it all the way to total acceptance if you want.
As for the notch, I would like to see an adjustable window range, meaning how wide it is. Make it so you can narrow it down as tiny as to just knock out one specific number, or go so wide that it's roughly double the current width, though it's current 12.5 digit width on my machine is just about perfect for killing pulling tabs. Minelab must have put some thought into that. Also, you'd still have the regular control for notch to move it up and down the scale to position it. So far we haven't had to add more switches or anything like that to the face plate with the above other features, and this can still be true with the notch. They have POT dials that have the main (current notch control) in it's normal place, yet with a smaller pot control on top of that dial to adjust notch width. See how easy that is. No changes to the stock face plate. Even the mod for the discrimination dial doesn't involve new switches, dials, or relocation of things.
The coil cables don't need to be that long. Provide an extension in the box for those who want to hip or chest mount. It's connector would still be well above the water level for people who wade waste deep water hunting, or just throw a water proof connector in the box to use for that.
Finally, a meter should come with the unit that can be thrown on or taken off for water hunting and such just like it is used now. There is no reason for the current meter to cost that much since it's just a basic volt meter and probably costs about $5 or $10 to make. If you aren't going to supply the meter with the unit then at least make it $40 or so. No call for that. Install a back light on the existing meter, which should be real cheap and easy to do on LCD screens and shouldn't even really cost anything in production.
Those are the features I'd like to see. Most of them would cost nothing or pennies to make. In fact, just eliminating the extra aluminum in the overly heavy upper shaft would probably save them more money than all these changes would cost.
Come on Minelab! You can save yourself money or add very little to the cost while not really having to do much at all in any changes to the internal electronics. I bet the perspective buyers for the machine would double. Women, people who don't like heavier machines, those who want the Iron Mask control or remote PP, etc.
With all these improvements , nobody will want an E Trac !!.....They'd be shooting themselves in the foot !!..... It would bring the price up close to the Safari ...They would have to raise their prices on ALL their machines !!.... I would be happy if they kept it just like it is except to change the VID numbering system to differenciate between coins better ......That's it .... The rest of it is fine .... I can even live with the wide notch that I don't use .....
....Jim
....JimCritterhunter
New member
I really don't think any of the improvements I listed above would increase the price at all. Even using a new coil wouldn't really cost more. Same amount of materials for the most part. In fact, with the scrap value alone of all the extra aluminum they'd save in both the shaft and the arm cup that would probably pretty much cover any slight cost increase of the various other things.
My two biggest main grips about the GT is that the meter's stock location was outrageous. They should provide a piece of plastic to click onto the shaft that raises the meter above the grip behind it. The other would be the lack of a easy to access PP switch unless you have the box chest or hip mounted. Third for me would be that brick of a rechargeable pack with Sub A heavy cells in it. Absolutely no call for any of those things. AAA nimhs would be much lighter and they could still use the stock wall "charger". My next thing would be a lighter upper shaft and a carbon lower one, and also replacing that boat anchor of an arm cup. Those simple things alone would make this machine so much more appealing to people and MUCH lighter. The Iron Mask adjust thing isn't really an issue for me. If I want to hear all the iron then I just throw it into All Metal, flipping back to discriminate when I want to start checking targets. I'd rather like to see the notch width be adjustable, and as said they can do that without having to drill and add another dial to the face plate. Just mount a dual POT control in the same spot which has a smaller dial on top of the bigger dial. As good as the stock coil is and so much better than the 10" Explorer coils, I sure would like to see a Pro Coil version or a 12x10 on it. Anything bigger would not be appealing to the general public. That's why I think Minelab didn't make a bigger coil for the Etrac. You have to sell to the masses with a general purpose coil.
My two biggest main grips about the GT is that the meter's stock location was outrageous. They should provide a piece of plastic to click onto the shaft that raises the meter above the grip behind it. The other would be the lack of a easy to access PP switch unless you have the box chest or hip mounted. Third for me would be that brick of a rechargeable pack with Sub A heavy cells in it. Absolutely no call for any of those things. AAA nimhs would be much lighter and they could still use the stock wall "charger". My next thing would be a lighter upper shaft and a carbon lower one, and also replacing that boat anchor of an arm cup. Those simple things alone would make this machine so much more appealing to people and MUCH lighter. The Iron Mask adjust thing isn't really an issue for me. If I want to hear all the iron then I just throw it into All Metal, flipping back to discriminate when I want to start checking targets. I'd rather like to see the notch width be adjustable, and as said they can do that without having to drill and add another dial to the face plate. Just mount a dual POT control in the same spot which has a smaller dial on top of the bigger dial. As good as the stock coil is and so much better than the 10" Explorer coils, I sure would like to see a Pro Coil version or a 12x10 on it. Anything bigger would not be appealing to the general public. That's why I think Minelab didn't make a bigger coil for the Etrac. You have to sell to the masses with a general purpose coil.
Tony in FL
Member
My thoughts:
1) Build the VDI display into the main control unit.
2) Allow discrimination to be set via VDI number.
3) Allow notch to be set as one or more ranges of VDI numbers.
4) Make the unit water resistant so that getting caught in the rain or a splash from a rogue wave won't kill the electronics.
1) Build the VDI display into the main control unit.
2) Allow discrimination to be set via VDI number.
3) Allow notch to be set as one or more ranges of VDI numbers.
4) Make the unit water resistant so that getting caught in the rain or a splash from a rogue wave won't kill the electronics.
A meter in the unit is only good for the people that hipmount or that mount on an S shaft in front of the hangrip, even then you would have to look from the side(they still come on the S rod in Europe) on the straight shaft under the elbow its entirely useless. Originally i think all shafts were the S type and the meter position worked fine, when they modded to the straight one in US someone forgot to mod the meter mount to go with it. i have mine on top of the sunray switch on top of the hand grip
When a manufacturer makes improvements on a machine , they look to keep the costs down and they also say to themselves " how much is this improvement worth to the end user ? " ....... It's not so much that it costs them less to do it , it's more about how many more unitls will they sell , and how much more can they charge for it .... They outsourced the building of their machines to Malaysia....THAT I"M SURE cost them a LOT LESS to build than in Ireland .....Le's say they are saving 30 % on the cost of the machines ....and I"m being very generous here ......Did you see the prices of Minelab machines drop ? .....NO !!.....Did you see any improvements ? ...NO ......My point exactly ....They did not make less expensive machne to drop the prices for you ....They made machines to make more of a profit ........ I'm sure that there are more people that will go over to a Tesoro because it is so cheap, they are light weight, and have no meter, and you know the saying that you ALWAYS hear " it has a lifetime warranty " ...... As wonderful as the Sovereign is to all of us , and its a great machine , I don't think Minelab is going to stay put and still make this machine .....Too many other machines are out there for them to make more money on ... We are a society of wanting more "bells and whistles " .......Instant gratification !!..... They want to see a screen with graphics and pictures ....Look at the Safari ......BIG DIAMOND RINGS popping up on the screen !!...BIG PULL TABS popping up !!.... A complete waste of power as far as I'm concerned , but I'm sure that there are those who love crap like that ..... Those of us with Tesoro's and Sovereigns are OLD SCHOOL !!.... Truth be told , the only other Minelab that is in the product line right now that can hold a candle to the Sovereign is the Excal and the E Trac .....That's it !!!..... Go ahead guys ....FIRE AWAY !!!.....I got my flame suit on !!.... 
...." Time keeps on tickin tickin tickin , into the future" ..........Jim
...." Time keeps on tickin tickin tickin , into the future" ..........JimCritterhunter
New member
Putting a meter in the box is not a good idea, because most people don't hip or chest mount a Sovereign. Keep the meter as is, but provide it with the machine and provide a plastic mount that raises it above the hand grip where it currently sits. Better yet, make it mount on top of the grip, and have a remote PP switch already in that grip. When you think of ideas for the Sovereign it can't be things that only appeal to a few people, that's why an internal meter is a bad idea.
Realisticly the only logical and easy thing to do with the notch would be as said to be able to adjust it's width via one dial and it's normal location as it currently does via the other dial. Put one on top of the other so it doesn't require any mods to the stock face plate. That's important in production costs.
The only other realistic electronic mode, besides the notch and remote PP jack (which is like a 5 cent part and nothing to install), would be like say the ability to lower discrimination all the way down and to zero iron rejection. Again, no mods to the box needed, and the regular Iron Mask On/Off functions would still work as they currently do. Throw Iron Mask ON and it's trying to pull good signals out of iron more. Lower Iron Mask rejection via the discrimination dial and it's going to increase that ability due to the nature of less Iron rejection. Lower it to zero rejection and then you could flip it over to Iron Mask OFF if you wanted to make it less "harsh" when hearing the iron, etc. So they all jive together well as currently done, just the ability to lower the discrimination dial.
I really doubt Minelab would stop making the Sovereign. Why? Because they'd have nothing left except computer display models. Look at all the other brands out there. They all have for the most part less expensive models with no computer display. Some people just don't like computers, period. But let's not forget the GT is still into the digital age where it counts- inside the box. It's a sophisticated machine with a much more friendly less complicated interface for people to use. Besides, where did Minelab come from? They built their consumer market on the back of the Sovereign. That machine is the reason why they exist today. It built their reputation. They aren't going to abandon it IMO, because many people who buy this machine would never own a computer display model of any detector.
Realisticly the only logical and easy thing to do with the notch would be as said to be able to adjust it's width via one dial and it's normal location as it currently does via the other dial. Put one on top of the other so it doesn't require any mods to the stock face plate. That's important in production costs.
The only other realistic electronic mode, besides the notch and remote PP jack (which is like a 5 cent part and nothing to install), would be like say the ability to lower discrimination all the way down and to zero iron rejection. Again, no mods to the box needed, and the regular Iron Mask On/Off functions would still work as they currently do. Throw Iron Mask ON and it's trying to pull good signals out of iron more. Lower Iron Mask rejection via the discrimination dial and it's going to increase that ability due to the nature of less Iron rejection. Lower it to zero rejection and then you could flip it over to Iron Mask OFF if you wanted to make it less "harsh" when hearing the iron, etc. So they all jive together well as currently done, just the ability to lower the discrimination dial.
I really doubt Minelab would stop making the Sovereign. Why? Because they'd have nothing left except computer display models. Look at all the other brands out there. They all have for the most part less expensive models with no computer display. Some people just don't like computers, period. But let's not forget the GT is still into the digital age where it counts- inside the box. It's a sophisticated machine with a much more friendly less complicated interface for people to use. Besides, where did Minelab come from? They built their consumer market on the back of the Sovereign. That machine is the reason why they exist today. It built their reputation. They aren't going to abandon it IMO, because many people who buy this machine would never own a computer display model of any detector.
Critterhunter
New member
I'll tell you what, another fantastic idea would be for them to provide a waterproof box holder for water hunts with the machine. You throw your GT control box inside that, hook up your coil/headphone, and away you go for water hunting when you want to do that. Take it out of that container, throw it back on the shaft, and now it's back to being a land machine. By doing that they would double the market- land hunters and water hunters. In a sense the GT is already sold to both, as many people use it in the water since it hip or chest mounts easily right out of the box. Most machines can't do that easily at all. A waterproof box and connectors to throw the regular box into while water hunting- That would add maybe $5 or $10 to production costs. I like that idea.