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Any way to help with iron falsing
- Thread starter Bill_S
- Start date
earthmansurfer
Active member
I've had quite a bit of problems with this. I notice it mostly after a rain (as do most detectors). Also, if your GB is off it can lead to to much falsing in general. I put GB as number one first, then go from there.
I've collected some tips for dealing with iron. Here are some:
I have been experimenting with running a modulation of 2 and this definitely gives a lot of soft hits on deep iron but doesn't seem to effect moderately deep (5"-8") targets at all. (Got that from CyberSage) Experiment with it, nothing to lose.
Iron dominates the 22.5 frequency, so note that on the spectragraph.
Try a BCR of 2 to 4 to help break up some of the iron.
5Hz filter not good (chatter)
I've collected some tips for dealing with iron. Here are some:
I have been experimenting with running a modulation of 2 and this definitely gives a lot of soft hits on deep iron but doesn't seem to effect moderately deep (5"-8") targets at all. (Got that from CyberSage) Experiment with it, nothing to lose.
Iron dominates the 22.5 frequency, so note that on the spectragraph.
Try a BCR of 2 to 4 to help break up some of the iron.
5Hz filter not good (chatter)
Small forged iron (square nails especially) will hit hardest on 2.5khz, it's what I call green iron cause when I relic hunt in the winter for stainless and forged iron (especially them cast iron toys too) I dig all iron that hits hard on the 2.5khz. Last winter I found a couple nice old cast iron toy capguns. I've never owned a VLF that I didn't dig the square nails yet.
earthmansurfer
Active member
Bill_S said:
I thought in pinpoint mode that 22.5 was dominant but I guess there can be a variety of factors causing it, one of which would be GB.
Southwind said that he noticed red at the end of the 2.5 Hz frequency on the higher numbers (wrap around I think) with iron. I noticed that on some of my signals today and when I turned 90 degrees I only heard iron, so that was a confirmation. I am starting to pay attention to that. I think that the spectragraph is an excellent tool to get to know (I still have a ways to go).
earthmansurfer
Active member
Interesting Southwind. I'm looking at the manual and at the programs at the end. Just to ponder a bit with Hi-Pro:
It rejects -95 to -20************That is a lot of discrimination for iron. If the detector falsed on iron, would you even hear it since it's discriminated out?
Rx at 9.************************That is fairly low on a scale of 1 to 15 and a lower Rx does help with iron falsing. Note the Discrim at 85 is going to give you good depth.
Report on Autotrac is off*****This is the only program that does this but has nothing to do with falsing or performance. Tracking speed of 50 is fairly fast (I think)
10 Hz high filter****************This will definitely help in heavy iron I would think (I mean the 10Hz), not sure if the high filter is better in iron, I think Bob at Whites said it is.
Modulation at 4****************I have noticed 2 helps with deep iron some, I imagine 4 would do even more. This all goes back to Cybersage's testing via a White's engineer.
Nothing else jumps out at me.
I guess you can compare your settings to at least those above.
It rejects -95 to -20************That is a lot of discrimination for iron. If the detector falsed on iron, would you even hear it since it's discriminated out?
Rx at 9.************************That is fairly low on a scale of 1 to 15 and a lower Rx does help with iron falsing. Note the Discrim at 85 is going to give you good depth.
Report on Autotrac is off*****This is the only program that does this but has nothing to do with falsing or performance. Tracking speed of 50 is fairly fast (I think)
10 Hz high filter****************This will definitely help in heavy iron I would think (I mean the 10Hz), not sure if the high filter is better in iron, I think Bob at Whites said it is.
Modulation at 4****************I have noticed 2 helps with deep iron some, I imagine 4 would do even more. This all goes back to Cybersage's testing via a White's engineer.
Nothing else jumps out at me.
I guess you can compare your settings to at least those above.
You must be looking at a V3 Hi Pro program. The V3i Hi Pro uses 5Hz HP. The modulation would be 2 with the V3i not 4. Bob who made the program actually runs LockTrac himself. Bob is using stereo mixed mode now with the Hi Pro program. Bob also sets a low tone for -95 and -94 to cover signals that rap around.
His setting are just a starting point for people he uses up to RX13 and sensitivity up to 95. Where Hi Pro varies is how the spectrograph is set up with a lower base threshold, and lower resolution. We started with the program but you wouldn't recognize the one we use.
His setting are just a starting point for people he uses up to RX13 and sensitivity up to 95. Where Hi Pro varies is how the spectrograph is set up with a lower base threshold, and lower resolution. We started with the program but you wouldn't recognize the one we use.
earthmansurfer
Active member
burlbark said:Southwind said:
Have you checked out the span setting? You can virtually eliminate falsing......
Do you mean by setting the span tight? Please go on here.
The thing is is that if you run span that means you are running correlate and a lot of us here it seems to actually hurt performance (cut out targets even when it's really opened up.)
earthmansurfer said:burlbark said:Southwind said:
Have you checked out the span setting? You can virtually eliminate falsing......
Do you mean by setting the span tight? Please go on here.
The thing is is that if you run span that means you are running correlate and a lot of us here it seems to actually hurt performance (cut out targets even when it's really opened up.)
Yep you will lose some depth. In the areas I often hunt they are absolutely overwhelmed with iron trash. If I dug every signal that chirped I would have to dig every field and yard up. I find that running the 5 band and having my span at 40 I can pick through the iron pretty good with reasonable depth. 8" on quarters in iron trashy areas is really all I need, however I may go ahead and open it all up in a couple of fields that I hunt.
I have ran the 2.5 frequency by itself plenty of times and it has amazing depth but is just to noisy for my hunting areas. I will have to check to see if I can hunt in 2.5 and analyze in 3 frequency, I havent ever tried this.
earthmansurfer
Active member
burlbark said:earthmansurfer said:burlbark said:Southwind said:
Have you checked out the span setting? You can virtually eliminate falsing......
Do you mean by setting the span tight? Please go on here.
The thing is is that if you run span that means you are running correlate and a lot of us here it seems to actually hurt performance (cut out targets even when it's really opened up.)
Yep you will lose some depth. In the areas I often hunt they are absolutely overwhelmed with iron trash. If I dug every signal that chirped I would have to dig every field and yard up. I find that running the 5 band and having my span at 40 I can pick through the iron pretty good with reasonable depth. 8" on quarters in iron trashy areas is really all I need, however I may go ahead and open it all up in a couple of fields that I hunt.
I have ran the 2.5 frequency by itself plenty of times and it has amazing depth but is just to noisy for my hunting areas. I will have to check to see if I can hunt in 2.5 and analyze in 3 frequency, I havent ever tried this.
I think I understand you. In other words you know you might lose some signals that are good targets by running in best data, but the falses are so overwhelming that you have no choice and so you actually end up with more finds in the same amount of time! That makes total sense to me. I'm curious how those real targets sound when you switch to best data though. I was reading on another forum about using some BCR to help, generally in the 2 to 4 range. I played around with two but need to test signals with it on and off to really comment. Have you tried that?
Thanks for your reply,
EMS
No I have not used the bottle cap reject. I find that with the span in the 10-20 range there is no need for it. Yes I try to cherry pick sometimes and usually have the span at 40 , 5 band with sat at 40, I am still able to get good hunt in and find wheats at 7" with the 5.3 coil. This is with correlate.
I have yet to really open it up and try to dig everything that chirps, I would never get anywhere if I did that. I was able to do that in one spot and it scored me a 1901s barber half and a 1915s barber quarter, depth was needed seriously there when I think about it. No iron was present except in limited locations.
No matter what settings I have tried in iron rich areas, I expect no more than 8-9" in between iron targets and that would be generous. I have found that mixed mode is truly the way to go, and I have hardly used it, but have watched my hunting buddy pick out targets from 10" with it.
I have yet to really open it up and try to dig everything that chirps, I would never get anywhere if I did that. I was able to do that in one spot and it scored me a 1901s barber half and a 1915s barber quarter, depth was needed seriously there when I think about it. No iron was present except in limited locations.
No matter what settings I have tried in iron rich areas, I expect no more than 8-9" in between iron targets and that would be generous. I have found that mixed mode is truly the way to go, and I have hardly used it, but have watched my hunting buddy pick out targets from 10" with it.