Any Thoughts on using the 4 kHz Frequency

[Coin Rescue Inc]

High- Not claiming to be an expert on the Nox 600 but here is where I am at on my experimentation.

I don't see much on here for using the 4 kHz Frequency. so I went out on Sunday to do a test at and 100 year old Park.
I would be interested in anyone's experience with varying settings.

My test site seems to have many old rusted Crown Caps and Aluminum Screw Caps. Near a parking lot of an older Ball Diamond. dates back to 1930's
These were mainly what I found.
A perfect 13 was just a small piece of an aluminum can. Probably shredded by a lawn mower.

Tone wise using (50 tones) in park 1 - Most targets read in High numbers and High tones with an odd low grunt hear and there.
Example - Numbers like (28 to 35) bouncing - High tone
So many hits per swing it was too much to take all in higher tones. The only defining difference was to view each ID number on each hit to determine if it was a wanted target. .
Found nothing of value. When Pin pointing the depth readings were off. 8" was more like 4" in reality. So if depth indicates an older coin not sure if the depth meter is helpful.
So I relocated to a cleaner area of the park. Less targets to deal with but Higher tones than 28. Some more bottle caps.

So I switched to multi mode until I found a stable 28-29 number - swinging both ways it was a repeatable high tone. Tested that find then in 4 kHz. It was stable at 29 too. Was a modern Quarter.
Found another Quarter near by then called it quits due to the heat.

So I wonder if there would be better settings for 4 kHz where every tone is not the same? 5 tone?
Thinking if coin hunting - notch out the unwanted numbers?

Any suggestions would be welcome

 

[fwcrawford]

I experienced the same thing as you, but did not try it long... was switching between multi and 4khz and comparing response on targets and that got old quick for me.
I tested it with nickel signals and it would not even pick them up hardly in 4khz.
Not a signal I would have dug.
To me, the tone on silver coins seemed different after the new update... I thought maybe it was my imagination til I mentioned it to another forum member and he said he noticed a difference too...
since that conversation we both reverted back to the previous update.
I still prefer multi frequency and 50 tones for my type of hunting.
Been doing well with it, so I think I will stick to this setup.
After the newest update, I found six silver dimes and they gave no indication they were silver like the ones I found before the update... just sounded like a clad dime.

 

[JimmyCT]

I used 4khz and this is my findings:
4khz runs smooth and quite but skews TID's horribly. For example, I hit on a target in 4khz in Park1 that give me a 25-26 in TID and a solid tone. It's a solid hit and think oh, this is a "good" target / possibly a dime due to TID.....
I switch over to Multi in Park1 and it gives an ID of 11...what the heck? I dig it and its a tiny piece of aluminum junk.

In another scenario I hit on a good target in 4khz that hit up in the TID range of 28 with a nice solid sounding tone. Again, I am thinking "oh boy this could be a nice target"
Switch over to Park1 multi and provides a TID of 17-18. Hmmmm... I lower senstivity to 15, same results. Dig it up and its a pulltab

What I did find out: if the signals are close in TID by switching from 4khz and Park1 it usually ended up being a coin target.

For example, (This event actually happened to me) I was in Park1 - 4khz and hit on a pretty solid 25 TID. I switched over to Park1 Multi and TID / Tone was struggling in climbing from 21-23. Digging only 3" or less I find a merc dime.

One other real life example, I hit a nice solid tone / TID of 25-26 in 4Khz, I switched over to Park1 Multi and Tone / TID dropped to 23-24. I recovered a 1/4 piece of a wheat penny.
The only thing I can say, is if someone is just going to use 4khz, they are going to be frustrated as all hell. Everything sounds good lol
The Double check between Park1-Multi Park1 - 4 khz was keeping my sanity. If the TID / Tones are pretty close to each other, DIG!!

Another thing I noticed: with this 4khz update, it seemed as if the audio changed on targets. Meaning, it seemed as if the targets weren't as sharp in tone as the previous software. Almost "blunted" if you will. I am the other person fwcrawford is speaking about that reverted back to the previous software and sticking with it.

This is my two zinc-lincoln's worth.

 

[bootyhoundpa]

For cherry picking I’ve notched out everything up to 19 and even then don’t dig any target lower than a 24.. I’ve had good results in 5 kHz or multi frequency hunting in park 1 or field 2 ..I prefer 5 tone... I’ve had similar experience with 4 kHz and hitting lots of junk..

 

[Ted S]

I had pretty good luck last time out using multi in field 2 and switching to 4khz on those two iffy targets that turned out to be mercury dimes...

 

[Mark kus]

I used 4khz and this is my findings:
4khz runs smooth and quite but skews TID's horribly. For example, I hit on a target in 4khz in Park1 that give me a 25-26 in TID and a solid tone. It's a solid hit and think oh, this is a "good" target / possibly a dime due to TID.....
I switch over to Multi in Park1 and it gives an ID of 11...what the heck? I dig it and its a tiny piece of aluminum junk.

In another scenario I hit on a good target in 4khz that hit up in the TID range of 28 with a nice solid sounding tone. Again, I am thinking "oh boy this could be a nice target"
Switch over to Park1 multi and provides a TID of 17-18. Hmmmm... I lower senstivity to 15, same results. Dig it up and its a pulltab

What I did find out: if the signals are close in TID by switching from 4khz and Park1 it usually ended up being a coin target.

For example, (This event actually happened to me) I was in Park1 - 4khz and hit on a pretty solid 25 TID. I switched over to Park1 Multi and TID / Tone was struggling in climbing from 21-23. Digging only 3" or less I find a merc dime.

One other real life example, I hit a nice solid tone / TID of 25-26 in 4Khz, I switched over to Park1 Multi and Tone / TID dropped to 23-24. I recovered a 1/4 piece of a wheat penny.
The only thing I can say, is if someone is just going to use 4khz, they are going to be frustrated as all hell. Everything sounds good lol
The Double check between Park1-Multi Park1 - 4 khz was keeping my sanity. If the TID / Tones are pretty close to each other, DIG!!

Another thing I noticed: with this 4khz update, it seemed as if the audio changed on targets. Meaning, it seemed as if the targets weren't as sharp in tone as the previous software. Almost "blunted" if you will. I am the other person fwcrawford is speaking about that reverted back to the previous software and sticking with it.

This is my two zinc-lincoln's worth.

Exactly the same results I found in my use of 4 kHz it makes smaller targets sound better to me I switch back and forth between multi. I also use field 2 80% of the time
Mark

 

[BigTony]

High- Not claiming to be an expert on the Nox 600 but here is where I am at on my experimentation.

I don't see much on here for using the 4 kHz Frequency. so I went out on Sunday to do a test at and 100 year old Park.
I would be interested in anyone's experience with varying settings.

My test site seems to have many old rusted Crown Caps and Aluminum Screw Caps. Near a parking lot of an older Ball Diamond. dates back to 1930's
These were mainly what I found.
A perfect 13 was just a small piece of an aluminum can. Probably shredded by a lawn mower.

Tone wise using (50 tones) in park 1 - Most targets read in High numbers and High tones with an odd low grunt hear and there.
Example - Numbers like (28 to 35) bouncing - High tone
So many hits per swing it was too much to take all in higher tones. The only defining difference was to view each ID number on each hit to determine if it was a wanted target. .
Found nothing of value. When Pin pointing the depth readings were off. 8" was more like 4" in reality. So if depth indicates an older coin not sure if the depth meter is helpful.
So I relocated to a cleaner area of the park. Less targets to deal with but Higher tones than 28. Some more bottle caps.

So I switched to multi mode until I found a stable 28-29 number - swinging both ways it was a repeatable high tone. Tested that find then in 4 kHz. It was stable at 29 too. Was a modern Quarter.
Found another Quarter near by then called it quits due to the heat.

So I wonder if there would be better settings for 4 kHz where every tone is not the same? 5 tone?
Thinking if coin hunting - notch out the unwanted numbers?

Any suggestions would be welcome

So far after using 4 kHz a few times I feel it amplifies weak coin signals and makes junk items come in as coin signals.
This reminds me of my old Garrett Ace, no meter just sounds and Charles Garrett said you just have to dig some junk!
Now as a true coin shooter - 4khz hits coins well and louder than Multi, In my opinion that is.
I also have found three multi coin glory holes using 4 kHz Nd I like that big time.
I also switch back and forth to check the signal out and see what the other modes report.
I also have found more coins and junk mixed in the same hole and I like that too.
Now - is it truly the 4 kHz or the new stability part of the software update that is making me feel like I have a new detector?
I don’t know and my Jury is still out deciding on the why - but I am having fun again with this cool machine.
Tony

 

[#1Leatherneck]

Very respectfully, allow me to ask. The difference between 4 kHz, and 5 kHz is one. I am not attempting to be facetious. It is obvious that the 5 kHz is already there? Has anybody attempted to try the new 4 kHz, and then, switch to the 5 kHz?
I would like to know what the difference between the min'ute varying of (1) one kHz is. When one changes to multi it is understood that most likely there will be a beep? ? ? In 4 kHz, what is the (Visual Discrimination Indication numbers) VDI? Then, change to 5 kHz, and again note the VDI. These numbers should be close to the same? Thanks

 

[KansasHunter]

Same here. I used it in a somewhat quiet area (somewhat picked over). The 4 khz allowed me to find some targets that were not found in a multitude of other hunts. Granted the targets were deeper and mostly iron but I did find a cap Derringer gun. As others said, I would switch back and forth between 4 and multi and most targets did not hit at all on multi.

 

[5900_XL-1]

I think it might have to do with the harmonics frequencies. A 4khz and 5khz fundamental freq harmonics goes second harmonic = 4k/5k of 8k/10k. Third is 12k/20k. 4th harmonic 16k/25k etc, etc. The point here is that 5khz multiple freq harmonics directly match the whole frequency band that the Equinox runs as a baseline. Lots of things happening in Rf frequencies when waving a coil. A 4khz fundamental should be friendlier with the harmonics since multiples of 4 is 8-12-16-20-24-28-32-36-40. The 5Khz overlays every fundamental frequency the Equinox already.

I tested my 800 today in my home test garden, on a confirmed 9" buried dime, using 4khz with a ground balance, which gave resultant GB number of 68. I left the Multi Mode use that number and tested, and got matching depth readings between both 4k and multi. I switched to 5khz and repeated the same test after a GB using 5khz. It gave a resultant GB number of 72. I lost roughly an inch with the 5khz fundamental compared to 4K test cycle.

The thing that still impresses me is how well the machine simply performs using the Nox in Mult-Mode with no GB. I'm not a electronic professional engineer or PHD type but I worked with the best in my. career.

 

[fwcrawford]

I think it might have to do with the harmonics frequencies. A 4khz and 5khz fundamental freq harmonics goes second harmonic = 4k/5k of 8k/10k. Third is 12k/20k. 4th harmonic 16k/25k etc, etc. The point here is that 5khz multiple freq harmonics directly match the whole frequency band that the Equinox runs as a baseline. Lots of things happening in Rf frequencies when waving a coil. A 4khz fundamental should be friendlier with the harmonics since multiples of 4 is 8-12-16-20-24-28-32-36-40. The 5Khz overlays every fundamental frequency the Equinox already.

I tested my 800 today in my home test garden, on a confirmed 9" buried dime, using 4khz with a ground balance, which gave resultant GB number of 68. I left the Multi Mode use that number and tested, and got matching depth readings between both 4k and multi. I switched to 5khz and repeated the same test after a GB using 5khz. It gave a resultant GB number of 72. I lost roughly an inch with the 5khz fundamental compared to 4K test cycle.

The thing that still impresses me is how well the machine simply performs using the Nox in Mult-Mode with no GB. I'm not a electronic professional engineer or PHD type but I worked with the best in my. career.

I agree with your statement about performance without ground balancing... where I detect, the ground changes every few feet, yet I have not been to an area yet where I felt I was losing performance while simply leaving the ground balance at “0”.
I have ground balanced while running single frequencies which I feel is needed and while in multi frequency and my ground balance numbers are up in the 50’s.
To me, this feature alone allows for more time searching and less time ground balancing.

 

[Mark kus]

I think it might have to do with the harmonics frequencies. A 4khz and 5khz fundamental freq harmonics goes second harmonic = 4k/5k of 8k/10k. Third is 12k/20k. 4th harmonic 16k/25k etc, etc. The point here is that 5khz multiple freq harmonics directly match the whole frequency band that the Equinox runs as a baseline. Lots of things happening in Rf frequencies when waving a coil. A 4khz fundamental should be friendlier with the harmonics since multiples of 4 is 8-12-16-20-24-28-32-36-40. The 5Khz overlays every fundamental frequency the Equinox already.

I tested my 800 today in my home test garden, on a confirmed 9" buried dime, using 4khz with a ground balance, which gave resultant GB number of 68. I left the Multi Mode use that number and tested, and got matching depth readings between both 4k and multi. I switched to 5khz and repeated the same test after a GB using 5khz. It gave a resultant GB number of 72. I lost roughly an inch with the 5khz fundamental compared to 4K test cycle.

The thing that still impresses me is how well the machine simply performs using the Nox in Mult-Mode with no GB. I'm not a electronic professional engineer or PHD type but I worked with the best in my. career.

Great info I almost always never GB I've done it a handful of times in 2.5 years with my Nox
Mark

 

[Mark kus]

For cherry picking I’ve notched out everything up to 19 and even then don’t dig any target lower than a 24.. I’ve had good results in 5 kHz or multi frequency hunting in park 1 or field 2 ..I prefer 5 tone... I’ve had similar experience with 4 kHz and hitting lots of junk..

Small pieces of junk in 4KHz give good high tones it seems to amplify smaller targets like pieces of aluminum especially
Mark

 

[fwcrawford]

So far after using 4 kHz a few times I feel it amplifies weak coin signals and makes junk items come in as coin signals.
This reminds me of my old Garrett Ace, no meter just sounds and Charles Garrett said you just have to dig some junk!
Now as a true coin shooter - 4khz hits coins well and louder than Multi, In my opinion that is.
I also have found three multi coin glory holes using 4 kHz Nd I like that big time.
I also switch back and forth to check the signal out and see what the other modes report.
I also have found more coins and junk mixed in the same hole and I like that too.
Now - is it truly the 4 kHz or the new stability part of the software update that is making me feel like I have a new detector?
I don’t know and my Jury is still out deciding on the why - but I am having fun again with this cool machine.
Tony

I did experienced something similar to what you did pertaining to the multi coin spills... I was searching in multi and got what sounded like a deep signal with TID of 16... I then switched to 4khz and got a 24 TID.
I checked again in multi before digging and got the 16 TID again, dug the signal and there was nickel and a clad dime laying on one another.
With the way the coins were laying the nickel was under the dime.
I did find this interestIng and was trying to figure how that lower frequency gave such a different TID.

 

[BigTony]

I did experienced something similar to what you did pertaining to the multi coin spills... I was searching in multi and got what sounded like a deep signal with TID of 16... I then switched to 4khz and got a 24 TID.
I checked again in multi before digging and got the 16 TID again, dug the signal and there was nickel and a clad dime laying on one another.
With the way the coins were laying the nickel was under the dime.
I did find this interestIng and was trying to figure how that lower frequency gave such a different TID.

Look at Sube video in the other post. He demonstrates Nox 4 and multi response then uses his CTX to explain the different TDIs.
He is astute and realizes that the lower 4 kHz almost ignores nickel or aluminum foil trash. But he states that in other words.
I found a large golden us dollar coin on top of a hunk of foil using 4 kHz. Must have been enough foil to hold a sand which.
He owes go into why TDIs are lower and I’ll have to pay more attention to lower ones in the future.
Tony

 

[Trailduster]

I had pretty good luck last time out using multi in field 2 and switching to 4khz on those two iffy targets that turned out to be mercury dimes...

This seems to be my take as well.

Unless I am field hunting where it is a dig all scenario anyway due to the sheer lack of targets, to begin with. I have been hunting traffic area's with 5khz and switching to 4khz if I come across an iffy signal.

My experience so far has been that in traffic heavy land, 4khz makes every swing sound like I'm in a sea of deep silver and I know that just isn't true. It also is very sensitive to nearby large metal and will false at the end of my swing radius where my shovel is in my left hand or I'm near a fence, bleachers, light pole, sidewalk with rebar, etc...

 

[BigTony]

This seems to be my take as well.

Unless I am field hunting where it is a dig all scenario anyway due to the sheer lack of targets, to begin with. I have been hunting traffic area's with 5khz and switching to 4khz if I come across an iffy signal.

My experience so far has been that in traffic heavy land, 4khz makes every swing sound like I'm in a sea of deep silver and I know that just isn't true. It also is very sensitive to nearby large metal and will false at the end of my swing radius where my shovel is in my left hand or I'm near a fence, bleachers, light pole, sidewalk with rebar, etc...

Trailduster, yeah I noticed that too, 4 kHz seems to light up the targets but you have to be more selected on which ones you dig.
In the beginning I dug plenty to see n learn what it was telling me. Hopefully I’ll hit some silver coins next time.
I did manage a small silver kid ring next to a Zinccon that 4 kHz lite up loud.
Tony

 

[Dirt Duke]

I found the same thing with nickels being ignored in 4 kHz. Quarters and dimes were OK.