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Another F-70 or any other detector tip

Steve from Ohio

New member
When making adjustments to the F-70 to cope with ground or EMI conditions, I like to air test a quarter or dime to check on how the adjustments affected the ability of the F-70 to find deeper coins or relics.

I've always found that in order to deal with high mineral content or high trash areas, sometimes I have to adjust the F-70 and lower its ability to do any detecting at all. At least the air test will give me an idea on how deep the F-70 could go. That way I won't be wondering why I could not find any deep coins in that area or why I am finding the deep ones in another.

The F-70 is one awesome machine but lets face it.. Sometimes the areas we hunt are almost impossible to find anything of value due to conditions with any detector out today.

And remember this.....do not carry your cell phone with you when detecting. A cell phone that is on standby still emits microwave radiation that can wreak havoc with any detector.
 
Turning off your cell phone while detecting is definitely sound advice, but just wanted to point out that the phones do not use microwave (thank god,or that would create a whole new set of problems), they actually use RF/FM.

HH,
Brian
 
This from Wikipedia and confirmed by a friend who is a cell tower engineer :

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
A Greenfield-type tower used in base stations for mobile telephony

Mobile phone radiation and health concerns have been raised, especially following the enormous increase in the use of wireless mobile telephony throughout the world (as of August 2005, there were more than 2 billion users worldwide). Mobile phones use electromagnetic radiation in the microwave range, and some[1] believe this may be harmful to human health.

And because most cell phones use the 900 MHZ range in frequencies......

Definitions of Microwave frequencies on the Web:

* As used in this part, this term refers to frequencies of 890 MHz and above.
law.justia.com/us/cfr/title47/47-5.0.1.1.7.1.163.2.html

Just so you know.
 
I can always tell when I'm fixing to recieve a call while detecting, my machine starts going crazy, I just didn't know it would interfere with it's performance even on standby. HH John
 
... I have yet to note any change in detector performance from a cell phone in my pocket, and I carry one with me all the time.
I mean, the amount of power emitted by a transmitting cellie is exceedingly low. An idling one emits no signal, ergo, no RF power is present to disrupt a detector.
But, leave off transmit power for a moment.

Equally as important is frequency. All tuned RF devices (those that transmit and receive) operate at a given, specific frequency.

VLF detectors operate on a frequency typically around 6-15 khz.
Cellies, on the other hand operate in two drastically different freq. ranges: 850 mhz and 1.900 ghz.

NOTE: These latter two are both microwave frequencies, that is true. That is, they are within the microwave frequency spectrum.
But they are not the same focused, highpower RF as emitted within, say, a microwave oven or by a tower mounted line-of-sight antenna.


Now, for a transmitted frequency to be coupled into a receiver of any kind, it must be either a direct frequency match or a tuned harmonic derivitive (divided) .
This is why you must "tune" your car's radio receiver to a specific frequency - to match it to the transmitted freq of the station you wish to listen to.
If this were not so, then ALL RF signals could or would be received by any receiver that happened to be on.

That being said, a cellies transmit frequency must be either a direct match to your detector's emitted signal ( which it isn't! ) or a harmonic match ( it might be ).
Otherwise, in cannot be coupled through the detectors tuned antenna/receive circuit and "wreak havoc" with the detector.

Since a direct frequency match is completely out of the question, we must look at harmonic freq's.
Here's where power comes back into the equation, and where we find the proverbial "fly in the ointment" .......

The further from the original source freq the harmonic is, even if it is sympathetic (evenly divisible), the less power it has. To make matters worse, this decay is geomotricly halved at each evenly divisible harmonic. Unsympathetic harmonics (NOT evenly divisible) have even less of the originally transmitted power.

When you consider that digital cellies transmit something like 0.3W of power at the antenna, a harmonic as close as even 1/4 wavelength away would have so little of the original transmit power as to be laughable.

So how far removed from a cellies 850 mhz is the harmonic equivalent that is your detectors operating frequency?
Using very rough estimates, about 121,000 times removed.
What would be the power in the distant cellie harmonic?
About 2.4 uW, or less - pretty small.

Now, detector receive circuits are exceedingly sensitive, I'll give you that. But, they are also shielded from outside EMF and the coil, by virtue of being a loop antenna, is highly directional. That is, it receives signals best from a certain direction only, which happens to directly below and above it. The effects of such a small amount of power as a cellphone emits on what is essentially the fringe of directional reception would be... well, questionable, even for a detectors sensitive circuits.

However, in the interests of fairness and scientific certainty, I will deliberately attempt to disrupt my detector by transmitting a cell call while in use. I'll do it tomorrow.

But to date, an idling (non transmitting) cellie in my pocket has caused no issues whatsoever with my detectors. As I said in the beginning, I carry one all the time, and it is always turned on.
For the record, no transmitting cell-phone of mine that I know of has caused a problem either, but I'll give it a try to be thourough.

In summary, the idea of a cellie disrupting a detector seems far-fetched.
It sounds more like the similar admonition to not operate a cellie while refueling your car - just another scare tactic.
 
n/t
 
I am familiar with radio frequencies. I am a ham radio operator and I know a few things about RF.

I have heard tons and tons of stories about detectors being affected by power lines. Those power lines are emitting RF and getting into detectors.

Cellphones are using microwave frequencies to stay in contact with the cell towers. My friend who is an engineer for a cell tower manufacturer says that he does not use his cell phone too often due to the microwave radiation and the dangers of those microwaves and cancers. He designs towers and antennas for a tower manufacturer and he stays away from those tower as much as possible due to the dangers of radiation.

I asked him about interference with detectors. He said that hey, aren't you having a problem with your F-70 and your Vibraprobe 570? I told him I was. His point was a good one. The Vibraprobe is emitting radio waves and it is affecting the ability of the F-70 to function. We tried a few tests of my F-70 and a cell phone and I can attest that if you run an F-70 hot like I do, then a cell phone does not allow the F-70 to function hardly at all.

BTW, some cellphones operate at 3 watts some less. 3 watts is enough to interfere going in to the top of the coil. And coils are somewhat Bi-directional. Up and down. But they are also to a small degree also giving off and receiving RF to the sides. The coil is not perfectly bi directional and will pick up RF in many directions. (Somewhat omnidirectional) Not perfectly mind you but still sometimes enough to affect the detector.

The F-75 is a perfect example. The stories about RF problems with the F-75 are legendary. The F-75 is one hot running detector and is very deep. But don't get too close to power lines or any other RF source and you will be scratching your head wondering why it is making all kinds of noises and unusable at the hotter settings.

And you cannot forget that even though a detector may operate at say 6.5 KHz or 13 Khz., the multiples of frequencies both up and down can affect the transmit / receive operation of a detector. For example, at 6.5 KHz., the receiver at 6.5 would also pick up 13Khz. and 19.5 Khz and so on in multiples. That is why detectors now have the ability to adjust operating frequency in order to keep from getting affected by other detectors.

If other detectors can affect a detector, then a cell phone certainly can also affect them. It only makes sense.

And even if those darned cell phones didn't do anything at all, I tend to think that going detecting is great because it allows me to get away from the world for a while. Why be connected to the rat race, which I hate, when doing something I enjoy so much?
 
Oh and PS.........I used to listen in on cell phone calls in the microwave frequencies by tuning into the multiples going down in the RF range when it was legal (sort of). I was able to modify my Radio shack scanner to pick up the signals and listen in even though the scanner did not pick up the 800 to 980 frequency range. (I don't listen in any more, for it is now illegal!)
 
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