an example of how a cop's "scram" doesn't necessarily constitute a rule:

[Tom_in_CA]

There's a certain park, in a town about ~2 hrs. from me, that I like to hit whenever I'm passing through that part of our state. It's been worked since the 1970s, and has given up scores of nice barbers, etc.... The classic "Normal Rockwell" type of park with the center gazebo, fountains, etc...

One day, in the late 1990s, a buddy and I were passing through, so we decided to stop and hit it. After an hour or so, a lady cop walked out to us and started in with the riot act. Eg.: "You can't do that , blah blah blah". Well as it turns out, we were wrapping it up for the day anyhow (had some place else we were heading to). So we just gave her lip service, and left.

It just so hapened that a short time after that, I began to correspond with a hunter in that city, via on-line PM's from a detecting forum. He'd seen that I was within a few hours of him, so we started trading emails of hunt locations, etc.... During the course of that communication, I told him of our booting from the park in his town. He was surprised. Because he too had worked the park many times with never a problem. And his mentors before that (who'd gotten him into it), had taken him there. And his wife was well-connected with city hall (had a relative on the city council or something). And he knew of no rule or law that prohibited it.

Naturally, since his wife had city connections, the fellow decided he was going to "get this clarified" and "get to the bottom of this". First though, he simply checked all city codes, park rules, etc.... Nothing there about metal detecting, aside from the usual boiler plate stuff that *could* be applied, like altering, or removing, or disturbing, blah blah. At this point, I advised him NOT to make any more stink, or get any more clarifications, or appear to be needing "express permissions or allowances", or get something that a cop said "over-turned". I was afraid that if this went up the chain to higher and higher pencil pusher bureaucrats, that it might only result in a "pressing issue" that they would feel the need to make some official policy on.

So he let it slide, and did nothing. Meanwhile, he continued to hunt that park himself, since he lived closer. And you can bet, all the while a little more observant to his surroundings, after the report of my "scram". But lo & behold, nothing ever happened to him. No one ever talked to him. And he told me this info, that it appeared to have been a fluke for me.

About a year later, when I was passing through that town, I too hit the park again. And no one ever said "boo". That was ~15 yrs. ago, and I've been back multiple times, whenever passing through that part of the state. Never again had any issue.

So the point of this story is, that anyone who says "scram", doesn't necessarily constitute a new "rule" that you or I must go fight. Not saying to ignore the person, or be back there the very next day in his presence, etc... But well..... it could be that it's just a singular person in a city of 100,000, who ... odds are ... you might never run into again.

 

[mudpuppy]

Great example, Tom!

Funny thing, this whole issue?...I dont get some peoples idea of property and all that, I suppose most subsistence hunters dont get it..

I have a piece of property I 'own' on a really nice stretch of river, which I have left undeveloped and natural, I have it posted 'no trespassing' so to speak, just on account of liability I suppose, but do I care if folks want to pull up and camp and fish and swim? NO! Its a cool place, perfect in fact, and folks have been camping and fishing there for 100yrs or more...so its just 'mine' as the present caretaker (taxpayer) is all...I dont even care if they leave a mess, as a temporary and casual observer on this Planet, I like to see what went on down there when I visit...I do appreciate the really special people that use it and try to leave no trace they were there though...just gives a guy an idea of their character and tells a story about who they were and all..'trespassing' is a time sensitive and enforcement issue...if nobody ever sees you or knows you were there, and wasnt there to enforce it, whats the deal??...

I'm a taxpayer, and I will walk this Planet and do whatever I want within reason without going out of my way to cause any hard feelings or trouble....yes, people and their ideas are confusing and interesting regarding this...

All this said on an open Forum, some folks are no good at being invisible, they get caught for everything and anything and stand out in a crowd as if they are painted blaze orange and blowing a trumpet!
Mud

 

[ironsight]

Tom, i agree with your post.
Instead of argueing and making a scene, just courteously agree to leave and hopefully detect there another day.

One possible reason the cops got called on you at that site is that someone considered you strangers up to no good and there were two of you the more easier to notice. Some people are territorial and they are usually the ones glued to their windows.

By the way, while growing up in my neck of the woods, right or wrong, 'lip service' had a negative connotation like sassing back or trying to talk one's self out of an obvious inciminating predicament or something to that effect.
Looked lip service up in an on line dictionary and the official meaning is something along the lines of agreement.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

iron-sight, thanx for chiming in. Yes a possible reason that a cop might show up to any md'r, might simply be that they're responding to a call from a nosy-parker. And that .... truth be told .... the cop himself might not care less. Nor have ever have paid you a second glance. HOWEVER, once they get a call, and they have to drive out, respond, etc... then subconsciously, in their mind, they must justify the call out. Or feel obligated to "respond to miss nosy-parker's call", or whatever.

I have actually had that happen before where the cop actually confided in us, that the only reason he was there, was that someone had called. He said that it was from a house that directly overlooking the corner we were on. So he advised us simply to go to the opposite end of the park "to appease that caller". But you're right: It's entirely possible that a cop doesn't go into detail with us md'rs, as to why he's there. He may just tell you "scram", w/o referencing the *why* as to his presence. So the md'r is left feeling that this is a "new law" or whatever, when .... in fact .... it might simply be an isolated incident.

As for "lip service", yes I'm using it with the definition that it means to: agree with or appease.

 

[Rick(ND)]

Now that you mention it I had such a case with a cop, but only for himself and his detecting Buddie.
We hit a court house one early Saturday morning on one of our road trip and started in back of it and was doing well as I got a walker in the first 10 minutes and popping out silver dimes and a few quarters too, we moved to the front to see what was there and seen the caretaker and ask him if it would be OK. He said go ahead, but don't dig any big holes and stay off the one area that he just replanted the grass. It was loaded with coins and within the 45 minutes I had 3 walkers while my Friend has 2 plus he had 8 or 9 silver quarters. Everything looked great until the city cop shows up and ask what we were doing and I told him only for him to tell us we had to leave right away and not to detect anymore. I told him the caretaker said it was OK, but he says the caretaker has no say and only the county commissioner can give permission, so I ask how to contact one of them and was told you cant contact them and for us to leave right away. Well about 3 weeks later we drove down to this town during the week and contacted the commissioners and was told it was up to the caretaker, so we looked him up again and he said go ahead, but in the last 2 weeks the city cop and Friend was there every day detecting so we might not see much. Told him what happened a few week earlier with the city cop and and said he wish we could have got ahold of him that day as that was dirty for him to do that so him and his Friend could detect it. If we would have contacted him there would have been no way that cop would have detected that court house.
This was back in the early 80s so it was a while ago, but feel it was virgin ground at a early 1900 court house that was over a block square. So sometimes it is good to double check when told to leave.

Rick

 

[hunter_46356]

Rick. Now that's a twist on this subject that I haven/t heard yet and makes me sick. It's getting hard enough to deal with the common perception metal detecting parks and schools is in some way not politically correct. This Cop abusing his authority so he can privately metal detect without worrying that someone else's getting the goods. And which Nosey Nelly is gonna call the cops on the cops. Make me want to puke. That kind of story should have been front page news in that community.

 

[sandbandit]

I metal detect on military bases, and have been chased off by police who told me that they had a report of someone "burying bodies" - they were polite, and only cared about having me move along so they wouldn't get any more phone calls. Was right back out there again later that week with no issues. Debating the legality of being there in the first place would have been a wasted effort - good manners and professionalism go a long way in defusing encounters like that. The police were quite curious about my metal detecting hobby, and watched me as I recovered some targets for their enjoyment before leaving. Never had a problem after that.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

thanx for chiming in. Yes you're right: a lot of folks, if questioned like you were, would go one of several ways from there:

a) assume "oh no, I/we can't detect anymore" . Ie.: they would assume this means they shouldn't have been doing it, or that there is a law, etc...

b) Or would defend their actions (human nature to be defensive afterall, eh?). This would merely cause the cop to .... like-wise .... rack his brains for something amiss in the activity. Ie.: "holes" or "removing items", or "harming earthworms", or some such nonsense.

c) Or they'd go to higher-up military brass to "seek clarification". And then .... gee, ... guess where THAT'S going to go ? You'll merely find someone with multiple stars on their shoulder patch to decide the "easy answer".

But as your experience shows, it's 99% on how you/we conduct ourselves. A big smile, and subconscious inference that this is innocuous, harmless, and that you'll move on for "sake of peace" anyhow. With multiple accolades as to "what a great job they're doing", and how you know they're only doing their job , etc...