Am I on the right track?

[Anonymous]

I've been going over all the posts lately, and there was a debate over whether to tone down the gain, or run it full blast all the time. I use the big DD Eclipse coil almost exclusively.
I've been using an MXT for almost two years, with no experience before this. Up until a few weeks ago, I ran the gain to the max. I have 6 gold rings, 5 silver, and about 20 junkers to go with a bunch of clad. A few wheaties, but no silver. I know I have to dig the junk to get at the goodies.
I tried downing the gain to about 7 or 8, and I think I like it better, because I try to go after the faint signals that don't VDI very good. With the gain maxxed, I get alot of small surface junk that VDI's as a coin, and indicates 4" or more. I don't run across this with a lower gain. Is this because the MXT is geared for finding small metallic bits, hopefully yellow in color?
Recently I went after a clipped off signal that barely read in the foil range at 6". I dug out a rusty nail at about 6", dug the hole out to at least 12", and buried an old beat up zinc cent. I got a faint audio signal, and the VDI indicated iron. The depth gauge said 10".
I turned the gain all the way up, and the audio was louder, and VDI and depth the same. This tells me the gain only affects what you hear. Is this to be expected out of the MXT, or am I missing part of the equation here?
Incidentally, no longer can I say I haven't found silver coin. I got a signal in the 30's, at 3", and dug out a flip-top. I went over the hole, and got an 81, which turned out to be a 1947 dime.
In the real world, how deep do you need to go to get at the old coin? Is anybody really pulling coins out over one foot deep? If so, do they VDI as iron?

 

[Anonymous]

Let me just say that my replies here are generalized replies and certainly some folks might reside in an area with closer-to-perfect conditions and have different results. However, having employed the MXT in a wide variety of hunting environments in over five western states, here are my concluded responses to your post:
<STRONG>"I've been going over all the posts lately, and there was a debate over whether to tone down the gain, or run it full blast all the time. I use the big DD Eclipse coil almost exclusively."</STRONG>.... I prefer to operate at MAX +3 gain at least 95% of the time. I have never <EM>had</EM> to reduce it lower than the factory preset, although I have on a few occasions when I was comparing responses on a few deeper-sounding finds. In every case, once I reduced the sensitivity/gain below the preset to about 7 or 8, I failed to get a discernable audio response on the deeper targets I had located at MAX gain. All those recovered were coins or at least 'coin-like.'
<STRONG>"I've been using an MXT for almost two years, with no experience before this. Up until a few weeks ago, I ran the gain to the max. I have 6 gold rings, 5 silver, and about 20 junkers to go with a bunch of clad. A few wheaties, but no silver. I know I have to dig the junk to get at the goodies."</STRONG>... With two patient years of hunting with the MXT your 'educated' opinions are going to be good for your hunting set up and environment. Correct, however, in that you have to recover a lot of iffy, so-so, or questionable stuff to get more of the better items.
<STRONG>"I tried downing the gain to about 7 or 8, and I think I like it better, because I try to go after the faint signals that don't VDI very good. With the gain maxxed, I get alot of small surface junk that VDI's as a coin, and indicates 4" or more. I don't run across this with a lower gain. Is this because the MXT is geared for finding small metallic bits, hopefully yellow in color?"</STRONG>.... Well, you had a little mixed message here. You say you like the lower setting of 7 or 8 better because you go after faint signals with poor VDI readings. This is the right approach to success. Remember that you will seldom, if ever, get a totally accurate Target ID to the same depth as you get an audio response
As for shallower targets giving you a challenge, I have learned to live with the noisier operation of the MXT ata max gain, and yes, you will get little pieces of foil and such that have a very good report and suggest that they might be decent targets. But I combine the audio signal with the VDI reading and the Target Depth to get a good idea if the found item is likely to be good or junk. You can learn to tell. Personally, I prefer the higher gain settings with the MXT ... <EM>BUT</EM> ... that is also because I use a smaller coil most of the time and get better performance at max gain that I do with the stock 950.
But a MAX gain setting will give you more of those signals you say you like to go after.
<STRONG>"Recently I went after a clipped off signal that barely read in the foil range at 6". I dug out a rusty nail at about 6", dug the hole out to at least 12", and buried an old beat up zinc cent. I got a faint audio signal, and the VDI indicated iron. The depth gauge said 10"."</STRONG>.... So, the coin depth reading was very close for a deeper target. The gain setting doesn't really affect the All Metal coin depth reading. It is not unusual to get an 'iron' reading on a very deep target, especially one that is a fresh-bury test target.
<STRONG>"I turned the gain all the way up, and the audio was louder, and VDI and depth the same. This tells me the gain only affects what you hear. Is this to be expected out of the MXT, or am I missing part of the equation here?"</STRONG>.... The gain is primarily tied into the motion discriminate operation and does two things. One is to serve as a "preamp gain" and as you increase the gain level, you can add to the signal. The other thing that you get by setting the gain above the factory preset is a dramatic increase in audio response or target volume. The enhanced target volume is more pronounced in three steps after you increase past the preset marker.
<STRONG>"Incidentally, no longer can I say I haven't found silver coin. I got a signal in the 30's, at 3", and dug out a flip-top. I went over the hole, and got an 81, which turned out to be a 1947 dime."</STRONG>.... Congratulations! Now that monkey is off your back.
<STRONG>"In the real world, how deep do you need to go to get at the old coin?"</STRONG>.... Location, location, location. On our detecting trip to Utah & Nevada last month the three of us pulled Mercury, Barber and Seated silver as well as a couple of 'V' nickels and such. Most were in the upper 3", with my 1877 Seated quarter at about 2", and a 1912 'V' nickel at an inch or less. All these were from ghost town sites and unless there has been vegitation growth and deposition, or digging/alteration by humans or animals, most coins are relatively shallow.
Most of the older coins that my friends and I are digging from parks and schools and such have been ranging in the 2" to 8" range, with nost in the upper 6".
It is all dependant upon the location.
<STRONG>"Is anybody really pulling coins out over one foot deep? If so, do they VDI as iron?"</STRONG> .... Very few coins are going to come from that depth. Veryu few honest coin depth recoveries are going to be in the 8"-10" range.
Seldom, very, very seldom, are you going to get a really good VDI response on the deepest coin targets. TID will be most accurate with most makes and models to about 3"-4". Deeper than that, to maybe the 6"-7" depth, you might expect some amount of positive, up-scale responses although it usually won't be accurate. Beyond that depth, and with the majority of makes and models offered today, it is not uncommon to get some iron or junk target responses.
Sorry if this wasn't a lot of help.
<EM><STRONG>Monte

 

[Anonymous]

Your ideas concerning the shallow small junk got me thinking about how they act with gain at the + settings. The audio response is very good, but the 'probability' blocks are iffy. Depth indication is usually 3" or 4". It seems the 10x6 DD is stuck at that reading sometimes. The only way I can see to read small junk at these settings is to rely on the confidence blocks.
I used to run the discrimination at the first preset. Lately I have dialed it down to between 1 and 2, hoping for a little more depth. My new rule is going to be dig ANY audio signal deeper than 3", regardless of VDI. I would like to refine that rule to set a minimun VDI number, and learn to set the discrimination dial so my "magic number" is right at the high tone cut-off in relic mode. Do you have any thoughts about what this VDI should be?
My most annoying problem at depth is the rusty nail. Is there any way, other than digging, to identify these nuciances?
One more thing about the small surface junk: I feel a pinpointer would be useful in sorting them out from the good. If the detector was telling you the target is 4", and you determine it's only 1", you could be certain it's a small item. I remember reading the MXT is calibrated to respond to coin sized items, so a small target would read substantially deeper than it actually is.
Your response is very valuable to me, and I thank you for taking the time to offer it up! When I first started out, I didn't know a thing, or anybody that did. The first thing I did learn was you can meet more detector 'nuts' in one hour in these forums than you otherwise would in 20 years.
All of you old pros that frequent here should know that for every person that posts a question, there are likely dozens of others with the same problem reading along at home. Keep up the good work!!!

 

[Anonymous]

I agree - Monte - thank you for your time and efforts in your postings, adn to all the other TH's that offer advice - it is appreciated!
here in New Zealand I have never seen another metal detectorist!!
john

 

[Anonymous]

While iron junk can bother all modern motion discriminators, it certainly challenges some more than others.
The MXT, like most TID models, will help you <EM>classify</EM> probable iron or magnetic type trash by using both the audio response and display along with two techniques I have been instructing for almost a quarter of a century now. I coined these two techniques as <STRONG>"Quick-Out"</STRONG> and <STRONG>"EPR"</STRONG> (<STRONG>E</STRONG>dge <STRONG>P</STRONG>ass <STRONG>R</STRONG>ejection).
I get a number of requests for postings I have done regarding these two techniques over the last eight years on the forums. If you would E-mail me your Name and E-mail address, I would be happy to E-mail this write-up later this week. I am proofing a re-write now so it will be just a day or two.
Basically, the important thing to remember about any Target ID model is that its primary function is to help identify TRASH. Giving a good-target ID is just a plus. You want to ignore any solid Iron VDI readout, and using these techniques will help achieve that.
No, nothing is 'perfect' but it is an operator technique that can prove very effective.
Anyone can E-mail and just as for <span style="background-color:#ffff00;"><STRONG>"Quick-Out & EPR"</STRONG></span> and I will mail it off to you. Just give me a <EM>name</EM> and an <EM>E-mail address</EM>.
<EM><STRONG>Monte

 

[Anonymous]

Hi John,
If you are the same John I exchanged Emails with when you bought your MXT, how has your hunting been going?
I just picked up my second MXT from Jeff after trading my DFX in.
Drew.

 

[Anonymous]

Hello Drew,
yes - the same John
Still really enjoy the MXT
got a 5.3 eclipse now as well
Planning somegold hunting soon.
dont get as much time to hunt as id like!
hope you are well??
John

 

[Anonymous]

Hi John,
Yep, In the pink!
Had a busy year in the tree business, but looking forward to some fine Fall hunts in the next little while.
All the best, and good luck afield!

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Monte,
I was one of those that e-mailed you and received part 1. <img src="/metal/html/glasses.gif" border=0 width=15 height=15 alt="">
It just increased my thirst for part 2. Do you know when you will be e-mailing that one? <img src="/metal/html/smile.gif" border=0 width=15 height=15 alt="">