Am I missing something with ID Excel?

[LilloEsquilo]

I've had until recently a Tek T2, and currently have an Explorer SE Pro and an ID Excel. I got the Excel mainly for competition hunting, as it is lightweight. But I'd read in reviews where people claim it could see a dime through a nail. That is a test I give to all of my machines, and the T2 and Explorer could do it to varying degrees of success, depending on how you swing and your settings. However, the Excel does not see the dime at all in my testing, even in all metal it will sound off but the iron reading comes through WAY stronger on the screen where on the Explorer it was in the area you would expect silver to be. (Same for the T2 the ID was erratic but you consistently saw a good reading and the audio would make you dig).

Am I missing something here? Is it just based off of the audio sounding different rather than the numeric ID? I'm completely new to Fisher machines as well as the Excel so it may simply react differently than I'm used to with the T2 and Explorer.

 

[BarnacleBill]

One factor could be the Excel uses a concentric coil and the other two DD coils. Also make sure you do the nail test consistently:

1. Use the same nail positioned exactly the same for all three.
2. DO NOT have the nail in direct contact with the coin. Space the nail about an inch above the coin.
3. Using the other two detectors, swing the coils parallel to the nail || then 90 deg ===. Note the differences in response.

HH
BarnacleBill

 

[LilloEsquilo]

Hi Bill,
Thanks for the quick response.

I did actually have the nail off to the side of the coin, and kept them in the exact same places and positions for both machines (Explorer and Excel). With the T2, I could put the nail directly on top of the dime, and still with the right settings get a hit that would make you dig. With the Explorer and Excel, I have the nail off to the side a few inches. With the Explorer, if I slow sweep speed and carefully do a bit of that Minelab "wiggle", it hits the dime despite nulling over the nail. With the Excel, I will admit I know very little about the machine or even the brand at this point. So I could well doing something wrong here, but the nail was actually a couple of inches from the coin for the test. No matter what I did with the Excel, the nail would make the dime invisible. So I could simply be a clueless idiot here with not enough time on it to know how to get around that, but so far I truly have no clue. I did also try different angles, which works very well with both the T2 and Explorer, and made no difference that I could tell with the Excel, probably as you mentioned due to it being a concentric rather than a DD coil.

So I must really be missing something here. I know I'm new to the machine and the brand, but people said it was pretty easy to use, and it seems to be, I just am not sure what I'm doing wrong that I am not getting past iron masking with it.

 

[Jackpine Savage]

lots of hours hunting with Dimitar's designs. Everyone has read the depth wars about air tests vs in ground depths where some say their particular brand needs to see the ground for best depth. What I'm detting at is that "in the ground" is where it counts and the Excel/Edge/Coinstrike do get the job done where it counts. Now whether the ground reponse is actually neccessary for best performance I cannot state from a technical perspective but it sure seems to be that way based on use.

Tom

 

[Bill Ladd]

So much that I really made a mistake in trading mine. The reason I traded it is becuse after getting the ID-Edge which was very similar, plus a Coin$trike, I wasn't using all 3. But, one cool thing I could always do with the Excel better than the other 2 was to go into thick iron, even with the stock coil, and watch the meter. You'll see constant (-) number readings galore....but when you see a (+) sign slip in, dig. Occationally nothing of note will be recovered, but more often than not I was finding small buttons, coins, etc hiding out, or masked. I did this in a Civil War camp that had been pounded for years by every detector made. The little Excel wowed everyone with uniform buttons, grommets, etc that had been masked...
I may have to pick one up again to do more of this in iron....
HH,
Bill
PS. many people do the nail test your speaking of with a small, empty prescription bottle or a plastic film container. Put a coin at the bottom & lay a square nail on top of the cap. I have never tried that test with the Excel, but hope to soon...

 

[LilloEsquilo]

You are right, usually it was a - number like -18 or -22, bouncing of course, but every so often a positive would slip in, nothing consistent though, and no positive id tone at all. Good point Bill, I'll have to do some further testing.

I got mine for $200 on Ebay, pretty much like new condition with the coil cover and manual, thought I got a steal on it for that. But then there is a coinstrike that looks like new on there right now for 310 too which also seems like a steal. I'm looking to collect coins not detectors, or I would grab that one.

There is also a brand new Edge on there for under $450 they say it's one of the older ones with the lifetime warranty, which is also a great deal if that is the case.

I'll have to test the prescription bottle idea too, thank you for the ideas here. I'm looking forward to trying this little machine out in the real world once the weather gets better.

 

[Mr.Bill]

It's not bothered by "Hot Rocks". At least not the ones in the New England area. In discrimination or all metal, not a peep. I haven't had any other detectors that would stay quiet on them, ever. It's also a hellava hunter in trashy areas.

There's so much emphasis on depth these days that one tends to overlook the important features, such as what is being mentioned here in these threads.

 

[BarnacleBill]

[size=medium]FUN[/size] detector. Lightweight, great in iron, quiet(no audio fatigue), simple to set up(easy to learn), just the minimal information you need on screen(no cockpit overload/fatigue).

HH
BarnacleBill

 

[Frank in NH]

n/t

 

[BarnacleBill]

50 deg..........I needed an excuse to go outside.

Location: Asphalt Driveway

All Detectors:
GB'd
Sensitivity= ~50%
Nickel target on asphalt.
All detectors set to iron reject and tested against a 16p rusty nail.
Nail set 3 inches above nickel on empty plastic butter tub.
Coils varied in height & turned 90deg in attempt to lock onto target.

Minelab X30 9 inch concentric.
Edge 8 inch concentric.
Excel 8 inch concentric.
Fisher F70 stock elliptical concentric.
Red Heat Tornado 9 inch DD.

All detectors failed to signal on the nickel, not even a peep.

But field experience has shown me that the Excel & Tornado are good trash pickers in iron. After 8 hours using the F70 it has yet to prove it can pull anything out of iron filled areas I have covered with other detectors. I was expecting more out of it as it has been touted as super fast and able to reopen trashy areas that are hunted out with slower responding detectors. My total take with the F70 after 8 hours is a Jefferson Nickel at 3 inches in a fairly clean area that even the most basic detector would find. By contrast with the Tornado, I knew within half an hour that it lived up to it's billing as an iron hound pulling coins up mixed in with LARGE nails.

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?18,479794,479794#msg-479794

The Tornado has an advantage with it's DD coil, but the Excel has more fun factor and can cover ground much quicker because of it's continuous ID readout.

HH
BarnacleBill

P.S. The Red Heats are only available used, as Vic Fiveash the manufacturer has passed on, RIP.

 

[Bill Ladd]

I'd like to find another at that price if I can.....
Another quick story is I reccomended one to my buddy as a back-up & one day he had to use the little Excel "back-up" in a colonial field and on the way to the car he found a very rare & valuable Mass. oak tree two pence! One of the best Excel finds of all time I would reckon....
HH,
Bill

 

[Bill Ladd]

Hopefully I'll run across a used one one day.....or one of those GMT 1350's that people always talk about as well....
The F70 might only be decent in trash with the new small DD they are coming out with for the f75.....
HH,
Bill

 

[Don in SJ]

I will admit I have not used mine since the first year I got it, sits on my rack nice an pretty, but the first and just about only notable coin I found with the Excel, was amongst 1950s era bottlecaps, lots of them and this baby popped out of the sugar sand in this condition!

Don

 

[LilloEsquilo]

I just got another on the auction site I won - $204 shipped for a new in the box Excel which is an older unit with the lifetime warranty.

It was too good not to bid on, though it seems I'm collecting detectors as much as coins these days.

 

[rbholt80]

Iv used mine sense they came out. I hung up the cz6a after that. I use the cz6a for clean deep places and beaches. The excel pulls stuff out of iron that no others can. I have an e-trac now and like it. Its awesome deep and is a great detector but for speed and picking goodies out of iron I dint think any beat the id-excel. I ran it for years and never disc-ed anything out. Wide open to heir all the iron. I didn't ever really turned up the sens on it above 2 most of the time. I know that sounds low but in a place that has 7-20 iron targets a foot that's the best setting for getting the goods out of iron. When i did run up the sense it was some place clean with little iron and trash. I also know for a fact that if the sense is at 9 it will hit a silver dime at about 9 inches and id it as a copper penny. deep crusty nickles will sometimes read as high as zincs and old deep nasty pennies can read way down close to nickels. But if your in iron and you heir any sound other than iron come threw then dig it no matter how crappy it sounds just look at the screen to see if you see a +36 then a -# jumping around if you do its 99% of the time a false from the iron. A +# other than +36 combined with all the iron is worth digging. -36 then +36 jump are the phase shift effect cause by iron not steel just pure old rusted iron. just to tell you that i know this detector ill tell what i did with it one month about three years ago. that summer I hunted an old fairgrounds that was covered in trash and more iron than iv ever seen in a place. The excel couldn't be moved an inch without hitting 2 or more pieces of iron. the place had iron fences around it and all of them had been cut out with torches and then replaced and all the stands were iron pipe so this place was a bi%$h. but In a months time going behind myself and many others i pulled 3 silver quarters 30 silver dimes 248 wheat's 2 ih 21 buffalo 3 v nickles 1 barbers dime 18 war nickels and 1 silver ring.

 

[BarnacleBill]

That's an excellent post on how to use an Excel and what to expect. The thought of what a 6 inch DD coil for the Excel would do is frightening, as long as it's great discrimination behavior remained intact. It's not a super deep seeker, but therein lays some of it's strength when working in iron, it's not blinded by a lot of the deep iron.

HH
BarnacleBill