C
calabash digger
Guest
heres a video showing the xp deus and aka sorex pro on a 14 INCH 1840 LARGE CENT.The aka is impressive on depth.[video]https://youtu.be/Ofk-j0092WI[/video]
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Jerry.
C
calabash digger
Guest
I use 4 programs 2 deep versions and 2 of Garys sifter programs for thick iron. Remember 8 inchs is max depth on coin sized objects with Garys sifter program.
azsh07
Member
With the right size coil and the proper frequency coil 14" on a copper coin that size is within its range...albeit at the edge. I have dug in the field a 2 cent piece at a measured 14" back when I was first testing the Sorex Pro and writing the Signum manual for AKA. I had dug a clean plug about 10"...target was still in the hole...checked the hold with the probe..no signal but still a signal with the detector. Dug about another 2" down...still in the hole but now I could get a weak repsonse from the probe. So I carefully dug down until it came out from the packed soil. One of the few coins that deep I was ever able to be sure it was at depth. Sometimes I suspect they get disturbed digging the plug....as I try and dig a 10" plug if possible with my shovel.
I never post depth of targets dug unless I am sure they were that deep....so not many do i egt to measure...besides I usually do not care anyway. This time I was testing and doing videos for my YouTube channel
Now I will say that that was the very edge of depth ability with any kind of reasonable signal. I had a constant weak high tone and a very weak but definate VDI angle of 80. had it been any deeper it would have been just another iffy iron target among many other iffy iron targets
I never post depth of targets dug unless I am sure they were that deep....so not many do i egt to measure...besides I usually do not care anyway. This time I was testing and doing videos for my YouTube channel
Now I will say that that was the very edge of depth ability with any kind of reasonable signal. I had a constant weak high tone and a very weak but definate VDI angle of 80. had it been any deeper it would have been just another iffy iron target among many other iffy iron targets
C
calabash digger
Guest
14 inchs on a coin is impressive, ive got my mind on a signum md in the near future.
took mine out for a spin tonight Signum MFT and they sure are different detectors from say the nulling minelab on iron , to hearing everything on the MFT, so this spot is an iron pit and stopped giving up coins at least several hunts ago with the ctx etrac, was using a NEL 3 kHz 12 x 13 and I came home empty handed.
just on my first 10 hrs so still a long way to go to sort this detector out but just from hunting against a etrac at a different spot it sure held its own on the good finds count so I think with time and more experience it could prove to be a nice detector.
AJ
just on my first 10 hrs so still a long way to go to sort this detector out but just from hunting against a etrac at a different spot it sure held its own on the good finds count so I think with time and more experience it could prove to be a nice detector.
AJ
azsh07
Member
Yah it is and that is a rare depth too. It was under ideal conditions...mild loam soil....and the coin was lying flat.....soil was damp but not wet.
In another part of my area you won't detect them beyond 10"....just depends on the soil for me. CLoser to the coast the ground is more mineral laden.
In another part of my area you won't detect them beyond 10"....just depends on the soil for me. CLoser to the coast the ground is more mineral laden.
azsh07
Member
The SIgnum is for sure a different detector compared to any other non AKA machine. Some like them...some hate the constant mixed mode. it is definitely a machine of personal taste.
But it will keep up with most any machine in depth. Target separation is good...but not the fastest around. But if you learn the graph and what a good target next to iron looks like verses say iron that is just falsing high and then low...you will like it. There is definitely a difference in the graph trace between those two types of situations.
I know other machines use a similar graph but I like the AKA version the best...followed by the Whites Signagraph. I find them both useful in cellar hole trash when the tone is good but the graph says it is junk.
If you run the 6x10 coil in the higher frequency ( I think it is 12Khz or 18Khz....i forget)...anyway it is hot on small low conductors.
The tough part is finding the combination of hunting modes...tone modes etc you like. I fiddled with it for months until I found the combinations I liked for different scenarios.
But it will keep up with most any machine in depth. Target separation is good...but not the fastest around. But if you learn the graph and what a good target next to iron looks like verses say iron that is just falsing high and then low...you will like it. There is definitely a difference in the graph trace between those two types of situations.
I know other machines use a similar graph but I like the AKA version the best...followed by the Whites Signagraph. I find them both useful in cellar hole trash when the tone is good but the graph says it is junk.
If you run the 6x10 coil in the higher frequency ( I think it is 12Khz or 18Khz....i forget)...anyway it is hot on small low conductors.
The tough part is finding the combination of hunting modes...tone modes etc you like. I fiddled with it for months until I found the combinations I liked for different scenarios.
C
calabash digger
Guest
I will keep the deus for thick iron pits but the aka machines have my attention from mild to medium i and clean sites.
yes they are taxing machines to use....although the berkut pulled 2 coins out of that iron pit but it has to be adjusted perfect or the high tone false will also drive a man nuts..
but like any detector 100 hrs min before I decide to go another 100 and well I wont be able to sell them here so better learn them hey
I can see once I learn Russian cause that's what it sounds like after using my other machines that speak English for the discussions sake will be worth the effort
don't be shy either in sharing settings etc for these detectors as there isn't to much English advanced help out there for AKA's .
Thanks.
AJ
but like any detector 100 hrs min before I decide to go another 100 and well I wont be able to sell them here so better learn them hey
I can see once I learn Russian cause that's what it sounds like after using my other machines that speak English for the discussions sake will be worth the effort
don't be shy either in sharing settings etc for these detectors as there isn't to much English advanced help out there for AKA's .
Thanks.
AJ
azsh07
Member
The Berkut is quite a bit different than the Sorex and Signum in many ways. WHile it still uses the graph and some tone features it does not have the same response as the other two.
As I said a while back I translated the Berkut and Signum manuals for AKA back when we were still Talking. The Berkut is a bit rough I realize...it was very very tough to understand what what being said...I had to use the detector for months as I translated it. Sometimes I just could not quite..."get it"...so I wrote how it worked for me. I was fortunate that I had the Condor which is the older version of the Berkut so I had a lot of familiarity with it. But still it is like trying to master the Whites V3i menu from scratch.
The main settings you need to get correct for ANY situation ate the top 5 adjustments. These are the 5 you can quick access. The gain and such is easy but the two that can make or break it are the ones that affect the recovery speed. I do not have one in front of me so I can't recall what they are....but if you read the manual on them it explains it. If I have time I can look up some stuff.
Suffice it to say it can make the machine pretty deep or just a noisy mess. Too slow of a recovery and it will false on ground variations for example. It is a very much play and adjust to your ground and detecting type...hard to say what one person should set it to verses another. I think it has factory presets...use them..start with the first one and notice thes ettings in the top level 5 adjustments, Then move up to the hotter programs and notice what they changed....best way to get it.
All the other deeper menu stuff is usefull but most that you need are self explanatory. I realize some of the filters are different but on the Berkut they really filter out targets by size...like say large or small iron...even I think large non ferrous items
As I said a while back I translated the Berkut and Signum manuals for AKA back when we were still Talking. The Berkut is a bit rough I realize...it was very very tough to understand what what being said...I had to use the detector for months as I translated it. Sometimes I just could not quite..."get it"...so I wrote how it worked for me. I was fortunate that I had the Condor which is the older version of the Berkut so I had a lot of familiarity with it. But still it is like trying to master the Whites V3i menu from scratch.
The main settings you need to get correct for ANY situation ate the top 5 adjustments. These are the 5 you can quick access. The gain and such is easy but the two that can make or break it are the ones that affect the recovery speed. I do not have one in front of me so I can't recall what they are....but if you read the manual on them it explains it. If I have time I can look up some stuff.
Suffice it to say it can make the machine pretty deep or just a noisy mess. Too slow of a recovery and it will false on ground variations for example. It is a very much play and adjust to your ground and detecting type...hard to say what one person should set it to verses another. I think it has factory presets...use them..start with the first one and notice thes ettings in the top level 5 adjustments, Then move up to the hotter programs and notice what they changed....best way to get it.
All the other deeper menu stuff is usefull but most that you need are self explanatory. I realize some of the filters are different but on the Berkut they really filter out targets by size...like say large or small iron...even I think large non ferrous items
yes the berkut has more menus that's for sure that's the one thing I am struggling with its to get it to stop high tone pinging on well nothing I am sure...
thanks for doing the manuals Russian has words that don't translate well to English.
I will battle on with them they both have found keepers in my short time with them but like you say might take some time to master..
thanks again.
AJ
thanks for doing the manuals Russian has words that don't translate well to English.
I will battle on with them they both have found keepers in my short time with them but like you say might take some time to master..
thanks again.
AJ
azsh07
Member
Responding with a high tone is usually one of a couple things....if there is no actual target.
Usually it is either the Identity Threshold set too sensitive or the response time is set to slow. Both make the machine more sensitive to targets but also ground minerals. SO if they are set too sensitive for local ground you will get high tone falsing.
The other cause is a GB set too negative for the ground. I always double check the GB after it auto GB;s as I see it tended to set it slightly off. Personally it runs better with the GB set slightly positive, otherwise you definitely will get high tone falsing, You want the threshold to rise slightly and noticeable when you lower the coil in manual GB. Not too positive mind you but just enough to be sure it does not null.
The AKA machines will tend to false if not set slightly positive.
Also...pay attention to your threshold channel...if you get a high tone ping but no threshold change...it is just a false ground response. This is easier to notice on the Sorex and Signum due to the all metal audio being so strong....whereas on the Berkut it is soft like the older Whites machines...but still it can be heard...just not as loud and in your face as the Sorex.
Usually it is either the Identity Threshold set too sensitive or the response time is set to slow. Both make the machine more sensitive to targets but also ground minerals. SO if they are set too sensitive for local ground you will get high tone falsing.
The other cause is a GB set too negative for the ground. I always double check the GB after it auto GB;s as I see it tended to set it slightly off. Personally it runs better with the GB set slightly positive, otherwise you definitely will get high tone falsing, You want the threshold to rise slightly and noticeable when you lower the coil in manual GB. Not too positive mind you but just enough to be sure it does not null.
The AKA machines will tend to false if not set slightly positive.
Also...pay attention to your threshold channel...if you get a high tone ping but no threshold change...it is just a false ground response. This is easier to notice on the Sorex and Signum due to the all metal audio being so strong....whereas on the Berkut it is soft like the older Whites machines...but still it can be heard...just not as loud and in your face as the Sorex.
thanks for that azsh07,
these detectors are so reliant proper GB its scary sometimes to know if I have it right or not and not like most US made detectors that for the most part very forgiving in that area..
so more to learn and understand and that's why I got them to learn something new and well I got my wish
my plan was Berkut and hodo for park gold hunting and Signum for deep park stuff and well practice makes better but its also good to be armed with some facts about these detectors so thanks for your help.
so I will try that on the high tone blips manual the GB a bit positive and fiddle with IT .
yes they do remind me of the whites DFX V3i with all the settings and it can be a challenge to work out which one to change Signum seems a lot easier to get up and running than the Berkut but my hope is to see some patterns emerge with the hodo for park gold but that's all just a dream at this point no actual data in yet from my testing..
time will tell as they say.
thanks again!
AJ
these detectors are so reliant proper GB its scary sometimes to know if I have it right or not and not like most US made detectors that for the most part very forgiving in that area..
so more to learn and understand and that's why I got them to learn something new and well I got my wish
my plan was Berkut and hodo for park gold hunting and Signum for deep park stuff and well practice makes better but its also good to be armed with some facts about these detectors so thanks for your help.
so I will try that on the high tone blips manual the GB a bit positive and fiddle with IT .
yes they do remind me of the whites DFX V3i with all the settings and it can be a challenge to work out which one to change Signum seems a lot easier to get up and running than the Berkut but my hope is to see some patterns emerge with the hodo for park gold but that's all just a dream at this point no actual data in yet from my testing..
time will tell as they say.
thanks again!
AJ
azsh07
Member
No problem.
Here is a tip i tell everyone about these machines...the GB and VDI accuracy.
The GB setpoint directly affects the VDI accuracy and this is VERY crucial to remember. For every degree of GB offset FROM 0 (Neutral GB) the VDI number of any given target will shift accordingly approximately 1 VDI point.
Example...a quarter may VDI at 84 lets say IF the GB is neutral. However IF the GB is set 1 full degree positive the VDI will now read 85 and conversely if the GB is set 1 dgree negative then the VDI of same quarter would read 83.
Now..not a big deal...accept.....wait for it.......GROUND MINERALS.
Hot rocks and ground minerals read in the +90. -90 -89 -88 range and so on. Now...remember VDI wraps around so if I push +90 one VDI point higher it becomes -90 VDI.
But the worse case is if VDI -89 or -90 is reduced by -1 or -2 because the GB is set negative these VDI now wrap over into +90 and +89 which will sound off. Remember VDI wraps both directions...so if -90 is reduced by -1 it is now +90 not -91 as there is no -91 VDI....O.k.
This is WHY you do not want to set GB negative in most cases unless you are in mild mild loam..then you can squeak out some extra depth but very rare are these soil conditions.
So...by setting GB sl;ightly positive you insure you are not getting negative VDI wrap around back to +90 or +89 from ground minerals or rocks.
Also you should reject +89 and +90 anyway as this will stop this falsing in those cases. Big silver does not come close to +89...actually never seen a target that reads +88 but I keep it accepted.
Now here is another crucial tip.
To insure your GB is neutral......go ahead and GB somewhere in your yard etc. Now...take a compact disc or DVD and scan it across the coil. It SHOULD read 0 VDI. if it does not then your GB is off by whatever direction the VDI is off. Manually adjust the GB until the CD reads 0 or +1.
O.K......now take a coin either a penny or a dime or a quarter. Scan it. Note what the VDI is. Now you KNOW for sure what the proper VDI is for that one coin when GB neutral.
Keep same coin in pocket when in field. If you are unsure if GB has been done correctly simply plop the coin on clean ground and make sure it still reads the same or within 1 VDI point. Don't obsess if it is off by a point only if it is off by more than 2.
Now this has to be done for each coil frequency as different frequency coils do not read same VDI on same target...but they are close enough I just make sure there was not a gross eroor.
I know this sounds like a bunch of junk to go through BUT......it is only needed when first getting used to GB on these machines and a way to double check in the beginning. After a little while you won't need to do it unless you suspect an issue.
Like I said do the CD thing once..check a coin and now if you are unsure in the fields just toss it on the ground and quickly double check.
I have seen the VDI way off a few times when I GB near iron. My VDI was off by 10....holy schmoligans that threw off everything. Same thing can hap[penif you change coisl to different frequency and screw up the coil cal. Actually if you screw that up you have to do the coil cal completely again. this usually only happens when you change coils and did not locate clean ground first. cause as soon as machine turns on it wants to coil calibrate and makes you GB as part of it. Well if you did not find clean ground and randomly just bobbed the coil over ground that had metal in it...baby that calibration is dicked. You have to do it all over again as it will throw the VDI way off.
Scott
Here is a tip i tell everyone about these machines...the GB and VDI accuracy.
The GB setpoint directly affects the VDI accuracy and this is VERY crucial to remember. For every degree of GB offset FROM 0 (Neutral GB) the VDI number of any given target will shift accordingly approximately 1 VDI point.
Example...a quarter may VDI at 84 lets say IF the GB is neutral. However IF the GB is set 1 full degree positive the VDI will now read 85 and conversely if the GB is set 1 dgree negative then the VDI of same quarter would read 83.
Now..not a big deal...accept.....wait for it.......GROUND MINERALS.
Hot rocks and ground minerals read in the +90. -90 -89 -88 range and so on. Now...remember VDI wraps around so if I push +90 one VDI point higher it becomes -90 VDI.
But the worse case is if VDI -89 or -90 is reduced by -1 or -2 because the GB is set negative these VDI now wrap over into +90 and +89 which will sound off. Remember VDI wraps both directions...so if -90 is reduced by -1 it is now +90 not -91 as there is no -91 VDI....O.k.
This is WHY you do not want to set GB negative in most cases unless you are in mild mild loam..then you can squeak out some extra depth but very rare are these soil conditions.
So...by setting GB sl;ightly positive you insure you are not getting negative VDI wrap around back to +90 or +89 from ground minerals or rocks.
Also you should reject +89 and +90 anyway as this will stop this falsing in those cases. Big silver does not come close to +89...actually never seen a target that reads +88 but I keep it accepted.
Now here is another crucial tip.
To insure your GB is neutral......go ahead and GB somewhere in your yard etc. Now...take a compact disc or DVD and scan it across the coil. It SHOULD read 0 VDI. if it does not then your GB is off by whatever direction the VDI is off. Manually adjust the GB until the CD reads 0 or +1.
O.K......now take a coin either a penny or a dime or a quarter. Scan it. Note what the VDI is. Now you KNOW for sure what the proper VDI is for that one coin when GB neutral.
Keep same coin in pocket when in field. If you are unsure if GB has been done correctly simply plop the coin on clean ground and make sure it still reads the same or within 1 VDI point. Don't obsess if it is off by a point only if it is off by more than 2.
Now this has to be done for each coil frequency as different frequency coils do not read same VDI on same target...but they are close enough I just make sure there was not a gross eroor.
I know this sounds like a bunch of junk to go through BUT......it is only needed when first getting used to GB on these machines and a way to double check in the beginning. After a little while you won't need to do it unless you suspect an issue.
Like I said do the CD thing once..check a coin and now if you are unsure in the fields just toss it on the ground and quickly double check.
I have seen the VDI way off a few times when I GB near iron. My VDI was off by 10....holy schmoligans that threw off everything. Same thing can hap[penif you change coisl to different frequency and screw up the coil cal. Actually if you screw that up you have to do the coil cal completely again. this usually only happens when you change coils and did not locate clean ground first. cause as soon as machine turns on it wants to coil calibrate and makes you GB as part of it. Well if you did not find clean ground and randomly just bobbed the coil over ground that had metal in it...baby that calibration is dicked. You have to do it all over again as it will throw the VDI way off.
Scott
Thanks Scott
great info there
CD/DVD is the plan at least I have a point of reference thanks for that !!
I see why these detectors have not caught on in the west we are spoilt with switch on and go detectors so branching out cash wise on these has been a gamble and man that MFT is a mirror it lets me know everything that's in the ground can be taxing to use but the lengths a crazed detectorist will go to too squeak out one more coin
as with all things in life knowledge sure is an asset so thanks for sharing yours with me/us much appreciated , now to head out and get more experience also very important I am sure and hey you just never know what pops out hey.
thanks again for your help.
AJ
great info there
CD/DVD is the plan at least I have a point of reference thanks for that !!
I see why these detectors have not caught on in the west we are spoilt with switch on and go detectors so branching out cash wise on these has been a gamble and man that MFT is a mirror it lets me know everything that's in the ground can be taxing to use but the lengths a crazed detectorist will go to too squeak out one more coin
as with all things in life knowledge sure is an asset so thanks for sharing yours with me/us much appreciated , now to head out and get more experience also very important I am sure and hey you just never know what pops out hey.
thanks again for your help.
AJ