Air Tests ...Fact or FIction ?

[synthnut]

I know this may be a very controversial subject , but it's something that has been bothering me for quite a while , so here goes !!....

Let me start by saying that I have NEVER been one to put much stock in air testing when it comes to judging a detectors depth abilities .....I have seen so many folks buy or not buy a detector on how well , or not how well , a detecor air tests !!..... My thoughts are that air tests are wonderful tests to conduct ONLY to find out what number , or what tone , a particular target hits at , or sounds like PERIOD !!..... I am also convinced that air tests do NOT indicate how deep a machine will go or not go in many cases ...... I also think that with all the HYPE that goes around metal detecting forums , that air testing is the BIGGEST HYPE of them all ..... I have Minelab machines that don't air test worth a darn, that DEEP on many different targets ....I have other machines that air test REALLY DEEP , that can't reach a dime or a nickel at 6 inches in real world hunting !!..... I mention this here at the CZ forum because of the depth standard that has been going around about the BETTER CZ's .....It seems that the golden standard for CZ's is " 12" on a Silver Dime " .....It's either that , or your machine is not one of the better ones !!......I personally know of CZ's that can't hit a QUARTER at 9" in an air test that are some of the DEEPEST SEEKING CZ'S that I have ever personally witnessed ..... I'm beginning to wonder how many folks got a CZ or any other detector , and did an air test , and found that it was not up t the standards of what other people say they are getting wtih thier XYZ machine , and they just turn around and sell it because they think their machine is defective or not up to par ? .......

Here's my question to you all ......

How many of you have found that they have had a machine that did not air test all the well , but they found out in reality , that this particular machine was one of the BEST, DEEPEST , machines that they have ever owned ? .......Thanks , Jim

 

[therover]

Air tests to me only verify that a unit is somewhat in the ballpark, range and ID wise, and is not totally all over the map when testing targets. I don't want to know I can't get a nickle in the ground no deeper than 4 inches when I am out there...I want to test the unit first via air test to see what the ballpark range is. If it can't hit that nickle or other target in a range I think should be adaquate, then I know something is not right.

You know how people say ground conditions play a major role in how a machine reacts to a deep target. Can we also say that, depending on where a person air tests their unit ( basement, porch, roof, etc.) can also have an effect ? I mean, I know I can get a dime at a certain air test depth in my basement when the washing machine and heater is off....but when they kick on, I have to lower my sensitivity or certain units start going crazy !

Lastly, A LOT has to do with the individual and their 'perceived' results. Kinda like that 22 inch small mouth bass I caught that was really 16 inches !

BTW....not sure if you got my e-mail but the coil is on the way. Sorry I could not get it to you for this weekends hunt. Please let me know how you make out with it.

 

[88junior]

Air test don't really mean squat to me Jim other than to make sure the detector is identifying targets right, in the ground a lot of targets have the halo effect which makes them easier to detect at greater depths I have a CZ-5 and CZ-3D both I think have the capabilities to detect targets at great depths especially if the ground conditions aren't that mineralized. I find myself sometimes in the field wondering how the heck did my detector even pick up some the items I've found, cause they were well past what they had air tested. So in my opinion as long as you have your detector set up and ground balance right you better be ready to dig deep.

 

[HaroldILL.]

I think any CZ should at least hit a dime over 9'' in an air test wit the sens. at 5-7 to have decent depth in the ground. That has at least been true with all the hot CZ's I have owned in my area. Now Minelab's are different all together. I have an E-trac that will barley hit a 9'' dime in the air with the 11'' pro coil. But I have dug a couple 11-12'' dimes in ground.

 

[gmanlight]

I think air tests are a good tool to test SAME detectors .
If 3 of the same units hit a dime at 10 inches and 1 hits at 7 , something might be off.

I have seen machines air test at over 15 inches but loose a lot in the ground.

The problem with testing in ground is all the variables.
A machine might work great is some soil and fall flat in others

 

[synthnut]

Thanks for the replies guys .....I appreciate them

Hi gmanlight ,

If you had the scenario that you wrote as an example ( 3 machines @ 10" and 1 machine @ 7" ) , and you were asked , which machine(s) you thought was or were the deepest , what would you reply ?


Hi Harold ,

If I am understanding you correctly, you feel that if the machine being tested is a CZ, that the longer a CZ air tests , the deeper it will detect in the ground ?


The reason I am asking these questions is that I am NOT convinced that the longer air tests on any given machine , CZ or otherwise , equals a deep seeking machine in actual hunting whether it be in dirt or in sand ......

Hi Therover,
I also use your "fish" analogy when I hear folks talk of what their machines air test at ...... YES , I got your message on the coil ......I did reply to you .....Thanks again ...Much appreciated .....JIm

 

[HaroldILL.]

I do think when it come's to cz's that the hot one's will go deeper,At least that has been the way it has worked for me as I have had many a CZ in 15 years detecting. As far as minelab have only had 2 and both air tested worst than in ground performance. I know it sounds crazy,But that is the way it has been for me anyway.

 

[Bill_S]

I just picked up a super clean CZ5. I did an air test just to see how it would do. It seems to air test a dime at close to 12 inches but so far in my testing all I can get is about 9 inches on a freshly buried dime. I will try to take it out tomorrow and see what some real world digging produces.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gI1ha1ihjk

 

[christopher-ohio]

I have probably had and tested more CZ-70 Pro's and CZ-3D's than any non Fisher employee except for Mr. Dankowski himself...straight airtesting is one thing but...
-how does the CZ ID?
-how much does it false on iron?
-how well does it separate?
-what are the optimum settings for that specific detector-max depth, minimal width?
-how stable is the detector?
-end range signal-sharp or "smeared"?
-along with other considerations...
I have proven to myself that airtesting alone does not determine a great CZ but in the field does...I have had some CZ-3D's and CZ-70's that do not false on iron...hunting with them is so ridiculously easy...and fun! I have CZ-70's that will hit(correct ID) a coin(dime/penny, etc...) next to a square nail at practically any orientation even parallel with the nail...the great SE Pro and E-Trac I had would not do it...so I think it's truly luck of the draw with some unusual undefineable(probably) combination of the specific tuning of that specific machine and the individual electronic components...I find that CZ's have THE most performance variability of all detectors I have used and Minelab the least for the most part but I have chosen to use CZ's since for me they are the most fun and least tedious to use...plain and simple....just my two small cents on this topic

 

[88junior]

I had a 1266x one time and that thing didn't air test well at all but it sure would bring relics and coins up at or beyond the ft mark. So I mainly air test to make sure the detector id's properly and to determine pinpointing.

 

[christopher-ohio]

are still the most amazing to hunt with, super deep and ID right on or almost...a machine can airtest great but if it falses on iron like crazy no matter what sensitivity setting or ground balance setting, it effectively loses detection depth for the non-iron targets we're looking for since the machine is too busy falsing on the iron to effectively tell the detectorist that there is something besides iron down there...that's why some machines that don't airtest as well but don't false on the iron so much often seem to have more depth...not to start another find the great Los Banos CZ-3D race but I have had a fantastic 1121 machine too that was probably the best of the best, in fact the earlier 1121 machines seem to have the airtesting as desired plus the lack of falsing on iron compared to the 1021 machines...I frankly get tired investigating every little high tone blip or squeak with Minelabs along with the iron falses with CZ's...the machines that don't do that which are far and few between are by far the best and most fun to hunt with...you get "jedi" with the machine and learn to trust it, have confidence in it, and just know that specific machine which is most important of all...if Fisher could design a CZ that would airtest great, ID properly, and false minimally on iron consistently like a few of these
"super" CZ's do, then most would realize they would be hard to be beat in sheer raw depth of detection, pleasure of use(non-fatiguing), time efficiency in hunting a site, etc...it can be done...there just has to be vision, drive, and the will on the manufacturer's part to do it to say the least...if I can make one point again: a machine may airtest great but if it lacks the other characteristics I'm talking about then it will still be a good machine but not a great one...but you never know that and think that this is the best it ever gets with a 1021 machine that was even tuned by NASA Tom...the iron falsing or lack there of is at the very top two or three of importance for a CZ...some of you have described CZ's like this before on the forums and realized how good, fun, and easy it was to use that machine...you may not have realized how special that specific machine is compared to almost all others...food for thought!

 

[Bill_S]

Christopher have you found sensitivity related to the iron falsing or will some units false on iron even on lower or higher sens settings?

 

[christopher-ohio]

n/t

 

[Dan-Pa.]

Heck I was going to post but Chris in Ohio put it in words better than I ever could....

Using land CZ's from the original CZ6 to the present CZ3D some models several different units and all basically airtested 9 to 12 inches in the field after they warmed up and have to say did get
10 inch plus silver dimes with every one of them so go figger.

As far as Explorers 6 or 7 inches but also got 10 inch plus silver dimes with them and used every model except the E-trac again getting 10 inch plus dimes with them also.

With me its in the field is where it counts and as far as airtests ?????

 

[HaroldILL.]

I know what you mean Chris as the smoothest running CZ I ever had was a CZ-70 pro. It wasn't the deepest,But it was the smoothest and best in iron. I can't remember one nail I dug unless it was really iffy and I was pretty sure it was before I dug it. It was one of the new in box ones Mr. Bill had awhile back. I think you got one too. I sold it because like most 102 serial numbers it couldn't be run past 4 with out falseing and at that setting only hit a dime at about 8.5''. I look back now though and realise how awesome and smooth it was in trash at 4 and should have kept it!

 

[synthnut]

I think that one of the most overused controls on the Minelab machines is surely the Sensitivity ......The Sensitivity on the CZ is such that you almost don't even realize the difference in a lot of cases as it's so smooth .....The Minelab on the other hand will let you know when the Sensitivity is turned up ..... The Minelab machines WILL false like crazy as the Sensitivity seems to be more intense on the Minelab machines ...... Something else I have noticed on the CZ's .....They are VERY well behaved machines ....I've heard so many folks speak of never realizing much of a difference whent their GB is off on the CZ's as they run deep with almost any G B ....It's only when you get REALLY deep that you will truely realize the critical use of GB ...... and it's not at it's best running perfect GB either ......

Rather than move AHEAD with various detectors , I have moved backwards in time , and have been running all OLDER machines ....... They are dead nuts simple to operate , and if you take the time to learn each and every little idiosinkracies about these machines , it will pay off in spades !!......Thanks to all for their input so far on this thread ..... I'm glad to see that there are folks around that see that air tests are not all that and a bag of chips !!..... Yes,, they serve their purpose , but as Christopher -Ohio mentions , there are those few machines out there that just have that something special and in some cases , they may not even air test all that great !!.... Keep em coimin guys !!.....Thanks, Jim

 

[G.A.P.metal]

I have had a coin ground test garden for over 25 years. Some coins silver and clad, hair pins , pull tabs, bottle caps, silver rings,1 gold ring, nails,bullets, BBs down in the ground 4" 6" 8 " 10" and 12" and have tested so many detectors over the years wet years and dry years . This is how you test metal detectors in the ground period.
Go out and dig one and forget about the (air tests they mean nothing in the real world. Hope this will help with the fact or fiction. Ya my Fisher CZ6a finds them all, as many of my other detectors do also and some machines don`t see the deeper targets.
Thanks Gary

 

[OldBeechnut]

I have had a coin ground test garden for over 25 years. Some coins silver and clad, hair pins , pull tabs, bottle caps, silver rings,1 gold ring, nails,bullets, BBs down in the ground 4" 6" 8 " 10" and 12" and have tested so many detectors over the years wet years and dry years . This is how you test metal detectors in the ground period.
Go out and dig one and forget about the (air tests they mean nothing in the real world. Hope this will help with the fact or fiction. Ya my Fisher CZ6a finds them all, as many of my other detectors do also and some machines don`t see the deeper targets.
Thanks Gary

Ok my turn..

My opinion, for the "real world" Both are fiction.......... ground test don't mean alot unless it is to learn about your area and air test are just to see a difference
one of my favorite air test...just to show a difference..no more then that

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twQsExBnm7o&feature=player_embedded