AFTER A LOT OF THOUGHT !!

[Elton]

A post about..." Is it hunted out" was started and many joined in...

I stated "Yes" some spots are hunted out.

I truly believe that and have proved it hunting spots over and over with zero ( 0 ) results in finds......... I'm talking Silver finds..not clad.

So for me that is hunted out. That said someone may come in and find a coin using a different approach, or possibly a different machine. A dime ( Silver) on edge maybe. So technically I guess it's not a dead hunted out spot ..

However is it worth hunting 8 hours ??? Most likely not. So in my opinion that is a hunted out site.

Myself I am considering those spots hunted out and moving on. Silver will never be replenished in those areas.
So if you like walking around swinging a detector for hours with little or no results..Hey ! GO FOR IT. That is your choice.

Some will argue with me about my views...That's fine too. Maybe their right. I call their views wishful thinking that someone missed a Silver coin..

It's up to you .Only you can determine what "You" consider hunted out.. Till you yourself have detected an area... It's not hunted out for you. However if you know 50 people have hit it over, and over..You may want to rethink your position..

Enjoy the hobby any way you can, and want too. While your detecting semi dead, or known less productive spots. I'll be doing research and finding productive areas that produce Silver finds ..LOL

 

[D&P-OR]

Careful Elton---Tom will tell you you're "contradicting" yourself. -----I hear ya & know what you are saying my friend.-----My wife & I hunt together all the time & I'm always telling her--"we are cleaning up the crumbs".-----Because when you stop & think about it---that's all any of us are doing---what with recovering any old silver/coppers that are still left in the ground, never to be replaced.-----Who knows, maybe the answer to this discussion is both "yes & no"!-----Yes, it's hunted out for some & no, it isn't hunted out for others.

 

[lytle78]

With VLF IB detectors at about their limits for depth and discrimination, you may well be right. The thing to consider is whether new technology will enable us to locate - for example silver coins - which are unlocatable but present given current technology.

A few years ago Tom Danowski wrote an article called Beneath the Mask. Not allowed to post a link to it here, but if you Google Beneath the Mask and Dankowski you'll find it readily. In the article Tom describes an experiment he conducted on a ballfield. Tiny fragments of iron and other ferrous material were masking deeper targets - more conductive targets and it was happening all over the place. I know there are some top-of-the-line detectors that claim to be significantly better at detecting conductive targets adjacent to ferrous ones and those claims are probably true. But even the best of current VLF detectors, including multifrequency machines are still very much limited by iron masking.

The current best hope seems to be further development for pulse induction detectors which due to the nature of their time phased signal sampling and their ground balance methodologies could be tuned to ignore ferrous material and see more conductive targets directly underneath ferrous material. Reg Sniff has posted on several forums the results of his experiments using a whites TDI detector. By adjusting the ground balance control and the sampling delay control he has been able to ignore ferrous targets and recover only high conductors. Likewise the Minelab GPX 5000 seems to have some ferrous/nonferrous discrimination capability beyond that in earlier Minelab PI machines.

With a new Garrett pulse induction detector coming out any day now, and the persistent wishes, hope and rumors of something from Dave Johnson at First Texas, there may be hope for PI detectors with true discrimination and the ability to literally see through iron.

SO TO MAKE A LONG STORY SHORT WHILE I AGREE THAT SOME SITES ARE NO LONGER WORTH THE TROUBLE OF DETECTING AND CAN BE CONSIDERED WORKED OUT, THAT MAY ONLY BE TRUE GIVEN THE LIMITS OF CURRENT TECHNOLOGY. THERE MAYBE HOPE THAT ONE DAY IF WE LIVE LONG ENOUGH WE CAN GO OUT THERE AND FIND MORE GOOD STUFF IN GOOD OLD PLACES. (Sorry about shouting but I didn't notice the caps lock was on when I entered all the above and I'm too lazy to go back and redo it properly in upper and lowercase)

 

[Tom_in_CA]

No, actually, Elton is agreeing with my view (that yes, some places CAN be "worked out"). Thus no contradictions here

 

[Elton]

My biggest point in this post is it's all up to the person detecting.

1.Have they detected it before ( Area) with no finds.
2.Are they happy just detecting ( Sometimes I am)
3.Is their a potential for lost Silver where one is detecting. ( it's not everywhere like some want you to believe)
4.Has 50 others you know about hit it over and over ( Are they finding anything)
5.How much time do you devote to an area of little or NO finds before you move on.

No right or wrong answer........ But many spots can be, and are a waste of time to detect. ( There just isn't enough things in the ground to be found (SILVER) I mean.)


Where do we draw the line on over, and over detecting the same areas ?????????? Only you can answer that question..
Were pushing 50 years since Silver was made and carried as everyday pocket change. Many area are being recycled for new buildings. Land is being blacktopped and concreted.
A lot of areas are being placed off limits......So many areas left that can be detected have been worked to death and not much or any thing is left to find... Now I know not all areas are like that. I'm in the city..and it's a development thing. Country spots may be better ??... But did the country spots have enough people to have lost much in the first place ???

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Careful there Elton. You don't want to get another thread "locked", now do you? haha

Sure, in junky, or iron ridden, or sites-prone-to-have deep coins (stratified by age), then sure: New technology, or resorting to strip-mining, etc.... can produce more results.

But people, bear in mind, that not every site has a) targets that are deeper, b) junky conditions, c) iron-to-mask targets.

Like the example I gave previously: I researched out a country picnic site which had been used from the 1880s to the 1920s. There was never any structures there (hence no iron to speak of), and nothing after the mid 1920s (hence pre-dating the age of aluminum). And it was an arid high-chapparel soil type, which meant that none of the coins (even the earlier 1880s losses) were easily within reach, thus depth was a non-issue. Hence we could strip-mine the place. The only "junk" was bullet shells, which we readily dug up (d/t V-nickels read near the same range). By the time we were done with this site, a few months and 20-ish hunts later, (and ~150 old coins), you would be HARD-PRESSED to get any conductive signals at all. Oh sure, "anything's possible", but it's not worth anyone's while, trust me. Depth was never an issue, masking was never an issue, so .... no ... no new technology with "open anything up". I remember on the last trip I ever hunted here, it took me 2 hours to find a single remaing v-nickel. And even to find that, I had to go outside of the bounds of the picnic area, further back in some scrub, thinking persons no doubt went to the outskirts to take a leak back-in-the-day. We got a few lone coins using that tactic. But the ballfield, picnic area, etc.... are utterly totally stripped. Thus yes, some places are simply not worth it anymore.

I can think of an urban turfed park where we used to routinely get barbers, early mercs, IH's and early wheaties, etc... back in about 1980, '81-ish. But as the 1980s and '90s wore on, this park got "blighted". Got extremely junky. I pity the poor fellow who goes to this park now thinking he will find more old coins. He would have to resort to strip-mining. Or more realistically, the park would "become alive again" if tractors ever bladed off the top 6".

I heard of a fellow who did indeed try the strip-mine approach at this park, and after multiple hours, did indeed find a merc! The grand value? A few bucks. Believe me that the moment he decided that this park simply wasn't worth it.

 

[fowlercharles]

Hi Elton, This thread has been great and has shown most all of us have their own way of seeing ,and doing things which in turn opens everyone's insight a bit wider. All this helps keep things interesting and adds some wisdom to our dwindling knowledge about the tech. stuff that takes place whenever we put our high hopes to the test with every dig we make. I think Rick made a great point about our being aware of just how great the masking problem is and possible new found PI tech. I would also mention the fact that some of the other older Tech. systems might also be considered in that they may have been left in the dust of the early on advances of our present day tech, which seems to have "pert near" run it's course. One, that comes to mind and is still successful with some diggers is the 100.Khz tech. I believe there is/ was one UK Co. that did somewhat of a refinement on that Tech. and was /is still marketing their version. That tells me they have found reason enough to supply the particular needs of some digger folks. If the refinements aren't "significant", as seems to have been the case for awhile now, we are where we are, which should enlighten our newbie friends as to why so many of us old diggers are still relying on old tech. for our digging enjoyment. LOL, We ain't got a lot of digging time left to be waiting and wishing for new tech. that may never come. The young'uns can wait and wish if they feel it necessary but I'm having to much fun "now" with my" oldies" hanging on the wall and that is what detecting is all about for me!. HH Charlie

 

[JamesBondaka]

Whatever your view is on whether a site is hunted out or not....I think its a safe bet to say.....when a deeper detector comes along of a major degree....there WILL be a lot more deeper finds...thus the site was not hunted out after all.

 

[Elton]

n/t

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Yes, *if* the site had deeper coins. But no, not if the deepest coins go in that soil type was a mere 5" or whatever.

 

[JamesBondaka]

I would say to some extent that the longer a site has been there, then there would tend to be more lost items and.............there would be deeper items. From falling leaves to cutting the grass etc etc....items get packed down into the earth from different things piled upon them over the years. So, it would come to reason that generally the longer the item is there, the deeper it would be.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

yes, if there is an infinate age/depth correlation. However, at some sites, there is either:

a) a "brick wall" (so to speak) where objects do not sink deeper (a strata or hard-layer, or bedrock, or whatever you want to call it). Or

b) a known age of the site (for example: "picnics started in 1885") and a clear depth at which "1880's losses are at". In other words, I understand stratification (the older, the deeper, in un-disturbed ground). But assuming a correlation is established at a "given site", and assuming that EVEN THE EARLIEST of coins are at such & such depth, and assuming that depth is "within reach" of current machines, then ....... no, there isn't necessarily stuff "deeper".

Now if I was working a park from the 1880s, and it was "all we could do" to reach the turn-of-century losses", then yes, I would agree that it stands-to-reason that stuff is likely there, yet out of reach.

 

[JamesBondaka]

Hi Elton, This thread has been great and has shown most all of us have their own way of seeing ,and doing things which in turn opens everyone's insight a bit wider. All this helps keep things interesting and adds some wisdom to our dwindling knowledge about the tech. stuff that takes place whenever we put our high hopes to the test with every dig we make.

Yes absolutely! Good topic!

Remember, Nothing is for sure. Nothing is perfect. I could go on about how there are so MANY elements in regards to how a metal detector works, how it processes and then how we use it. Elements like soil content, ground moisture, swing speed, swing angle, coverage, discrimination, tx/rx etc etc etc. All play a part in the detection of any given object.....especially deeper ones. So, to think that we always get everything right....is a bit of a stretch. I think theres always room for improvement and always something we missed.

He is just one example....I think it happens more than we know....

I was recently told about the neighboring metal detecting club went to a certain school. Theres about 30 members. Some members are very knowledgable and some hunt EVERY day. Needless to say....they are experienced hunters. I decided to go to the same school a day after they left. I was surprised by how many shallow coins they had found....I was even more surprised that they missed a large 14kt wedding band, a 1/3 oz silver ring, 1 silver nickel and about 60 clad coins. How is it possible that they missed all that???
I think it has to do with some skill....some with persistance....and some with luck.

Again, I agree some sites are better than others.....but hunted out??? I will believe you if you say your site is but.....just tell me where is .....so I can go look and see!

 

[5900_XL-1]

Whatever your view is on whether a site is hunted out or not....I think its a safe bet to say.....when a deeper detector comes along of a major degree....there WILL be a lot more deeper finds...thus the site was not hunted out after all.

Sooooo, when I bring a V3i, the Buds bring their Etracs and CTX3030s and the Deus machines are there along with the ATPros and other big detectors...tell me, "What deeper detector is left for showing up for the show?" Be realistic Friend. The limits have been met today, and there are indeed hunted out spots. Matter of simple fact.

 

[JamesBondaka]

As I said in a earlier post....

Whatever your view is on whether a site is hunted out or not....I think its a safe bet to say.....when a deeper detector comes along of a major degree....there WILL be a lot more deeper finds...thus the site was not hunted out after all.

 

[joe dirt_1]

I don't think a site can be totally hunted out, maybe the finds have diminished somewhat, but the coins and other good finds are still there.
Case in point.... I have hunted an old picnic grove used from the 1880's up until around 1940. This site covers 5 plus acres and the farmer keeps it looking almost like a lawn.
My first trip to this site was the spring of 1986. I still hunt the site and sometimes get skunked, but then the next trip will produce some V or buffalo nickels or a barber or mercury dime or two.
In the early years I remember one day my buddy and I found 15 silver coins one day between us including a couple nice standing liberty quarters. I have hunted this site for 27 years now and it still produces coins,
not in the numbers it once did, but I figure with over 5 acres to hunt, I still have a huge area to cover. It seems the coins were concentrated in a smaller area around some huge old oak trees, but I have found coins from one end to the other of the site.

I have used several detectors on this site over the years, mainly Fisher 1260, 1265, 1266, CZ5, CZ70, CZ7a PRO, and my Tesoro Silver umax, Vaquero, and now just been there a couple of times with my Tejon.
The Tesoro's have found a bunch of nickels that were missed before, even with the CZ's. That gives me hope that there could be some nice old Victorian gold jewelry still in the ground.
I really wish I had kept a journal of my finds here, but I didn't, but after all these years and several hundred silver coins, hundreds of early Wheaties, and well over a hundred indian head pennies, and lots of buffalo and V nickels I will continue to hunt this old grove.
So far with the Tejon I have found coins in areas I have pounded hard with my other detectors so maybe it will produce a lot more coins... time will tell.
While I agree some sites may just not be worth spending much more time searching, some of your good producing sites are worth the time. You never get it all, and who knows, that next find could be a 20 dollar gold coin we all wish to find. Good luck and HH......

Roger

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Sure. IF there are deeper targets at the site-in-question. Then sure, it's not "hunted out". HOWEVER, if there are NOT deeper targets, then guess what ?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Roger, well you are simply giving examples of sites that are not hunted out, to somehow think that proves that no site is ever hunted out. On the contrary, it simply proves the opposite, that that one site is not hunted out. No one would disagree that some sites can still pork out old coins, if you work them hard. Then in that case, presto, you're right: that site is not hunted out. But this is not about those sites that can still put out nice keepers for the patient person, or new technology, or stip-mining, etc... This is about sites that truly have been already strip-mined, and that depth is not the issue (the earliest the site dates to, is well within reach of the sinkage rate).

 

[mudpuppy]

Funny! I'm sure there are a lot of lurkers like me enjoying this subject! It comes down to time invested per semi valuable pouch contents per location. I can assure you if a guy can totally hunt out a totlot for pennies, a guy can totally hunt out a park for silvers...If a person hunting deep silver gets discouraged, perhaps just jumping into the many different sub-sets this hobby affords will bring you back to life..OK, so it aint a Barber half, but a stinky pile of clad can spend just as well and quicker, fun and easy to hunt. Theres those that want to keep hope alive and spend countless hours in a hunted out place in the futile effort to find a silver dime, good on you too! Hunting or Finding, what do you want? That is the question!
Mud

 

[JamesBondaka]

Mud,

Your so right....what is one mans treasure...is another mans trash.

Sure. IF there are deeper targets at the site-in-question. Then sure, it's not "hunted out". HOWEVER, if there are NOT deeper targets, then guess what ?

"IF" is the key word. The question is how does one know? How does one EVER know ....for sure??? That is precisely why we do what we do.....to look for the unknown or hidden....objects "thought" to be lost forever.