ACE 250 Jumping Signal

[lmathis428]

Hey Everyone,

Let me start by saying I understand I am new at metal detecting!!! That being said, I'm pretty good at figuring things out rather quickly, but this has got me frustrated....

I have an ACE 250 and a Pro Pointer...I'll find a target, pinpoint on the ACE where it is, and with a NORMAL sized shovel, I will dig the plug, whether it be 4" or 6". Once I get the plug off, I'll grab the pro pointer and run it for a little bit on the plug and down in the hole, NOTHING....ok...

Then, I'll grab the detector again and my signal has moved over and isn't even in my hole...it will be an entire new plug away...ok...

So, I'll dig that plug, use the prop pointer, and the damn signal will move again...ok, that's ridiculous...

When I use the ACE to pinpoint the spot, I will go side to side...then, I'll move to the other side, go side to side, to find where X marks the spot...that was something someone mentioned before, but I was doing it then, and I'm doing it now!!!

Any advice because I love metal detecting so far but digging up my freaking yard only to have the signal jump and keep moving on me is for the freaking birds...thanks!!!

 

[fongu]

What kind of coil are you using? Is this happening in all metal or the other modes, also? This happened to me with my 2500 when I first got started and I had my 12-1/2 inch coil in all metal mode and it was picking up my shovel I was using from several feet away. Are there any electrical lines above you or underground? What's your sensitivity set at? Try lowering it from the factory preset. Try a sensitivity of 6 and then try a little lower if that doesn't stop the falsing.
Rusted nails will give a signal and when you dig into the hole and break up the rust pocket that has consumed the nail, you will no longer get a signal.
There are quite a few members on this forum who are experts with their Ace-250 and they can help you get it figured out. Good luck and happy hunting.

 

[lmathis428]

Thanks so much for the reply!!

I'm using the standard 6x9 coil it comes with. At first I was doing all metals, then switched to jewelry mode to lose the iron. I have not raised the sensitivity. At first, I had it all the way up, but too many posts about that being a bad thing has me leaving it at the factory preset, 5 I think?...there are no power lines above me or underground where I was digging today, for example, which was why I finally posted this in the first place!

It's just frustrating because today I was digging in my back yard, and I literally was digging shovels full of dirt and sod trying to find this goofy metal!!! Kinda reminded me of Caddyshack!!!

Finally, I did find some old rusty nails, staples, or hooks. They were too far rusty to know for sure!!

Here's a question....for a newbie, is it better for us to hunt for 4" and more shallow? I seem to be spending more time on 6" depths, which maybe part of the problem...I hate to just keep missing stuff deep, but maybe that's more advanced depths?! When I finally start digging parks, I'm sure they're going to want clean digs, not excavation digs like what I did today!!!

 

[pascalburns]

try running in coin mode.set sen to 3 bars.see if that helps.

 

[grumpysrb]

I have had this happen with my 350 for several reasons. There could be more than one target under the coil and you cannot pinpoint accurately. The target isn't as deep as the machine indicates. I've looked all over the hole to find the Target in the grass at the top of the plug. The target gets thrown from the plug when you dig it out. When I get a hit that is 4 inches or less I use my pro pointer to see if it is shallow and to get an exact spot before digging. Then I have had hits I couldn't find and never figured out why. You'll get better with experience.

 

[Orion42]

Old iron targets that have rusted away can also be picked up, until you disturb the ground. Then it destroys the "halo" from the rusted away metal. Being rust, it can also show up as a better target.

John

 

[slingshot]

Yeah-sounds like you're flipping the target around. Also, try pushing the pinpoint with the coil close to the ground then raising the coil and inch or two after releasing it to THEN pinpoint. That's my only guess, as I've never had such a problem.

 

[Dodqe]

One thing I do when pinpointing a difficult target is I desensitize the pinpoint mode...
If I find a decent target and can't get a tight 'X' on it, I release the pinpoint button, then move the coil to the edge of where the target is being detected. Now, just off the edge, I push the pinpoint button again. This raises the pinpoint threshold, 'desensitizing' it. I re-sweep in both directions, being sure not to release (and thereby reset) the pinpoint button. It makes for a much tighter X. A lot of times I find that I was originally seeing two targets blending as one. Desensitizing makes it easier to separate them.
I found this works with my 250, my White's Goldmaster II, and my friend's White's M6 as well.

I also do what Grumpysrb mentioned above... I check with my Propointer at the surface before digging. If I get nothing, I 'super-tune' the Propointer with my wedding ring and do it again. If the target is within a few inches of the surface I can get a perfect point on it, saving a lot of extra digging. In fact, a lot of times the target is within a couple inches and can be popped to the surface with a screwdriver... No digging is necessary.

Lol'd at the Caddyshack-shoveling reference... Just stay away from the C4!
Best of luck, and HH.

 

[BigCatDaddy]

Since you are new to the 250, you need to set your rig to settings that will find good stuff and not every tiny little thing in your yard. Set your machine to Coins mode, Sens. at 4 bars. This will allow you to run stable and pick up good targets and leave some others behind for now. Coins mode will still hit silver rings and some gold ones too. Since you are hunting in your yard, those targets that Coins mode discriminates out ain't going anywhere. After you pinpoint your target, check with your Propointer. It might be shallow enough to pop up with a probe or screwdriver which saves retrieval time and lawn. Next, lose the NORMAL sized shovel and get a good digger, most folks use a Lesche. Learn to retrieve that target and disturb as little turf as possible. When you get out to a park, that shovel will get you booted to the gate and possibly banned. Good hunting and let us know how you fare.

 

[Mick in Dubbo]

Firstly, you have a very effective detector in your hands so you can have full confidence in the fact that you have the right equipment.
Also given that you are brand new to detecting, it's only a matter of building your knowledge base which will quickly overcome the frustration that you are now experiencing.
One of the great things about detecting, is that good targets usually give you quite solid dependable repeatable signals that behave in a quite predictable way.To learn about them it's a very good idea to find an area either in your back yard or somewhere else where there is no metal in the ground where you can test targets. Do this by putting the Ace in All metal mode and go over the ground till you find an area that you get no signals in an area of at least 1 square yard. Now that you have a clean test area, using only 1 target at a time, place them in the middle of the test area.It's important that when you get a target, that you make several passes over it looking for both consistent even solid tones as well as a steady lock or even bounce on the screen indicator. a lot of newbies fall into the trap of making only one pass and then trying to recover the target. One pass won't give you sold info but multiple passes will. Do this with as many targets that you are interested in as well as common rubbish targets.ie nails, crown caps, screw caps, pull tabs, soda cans plus cut up soda cans, foil as well as any iron shrapnel you come across. By passing over these various targets, you can quickly learn what the general behaviours of these targets will be. It makes life a lot easier when you get a signal that is buried. Also play around with the pinpoint on these targets. The Pinpoint feature will eventually tell you more about a target than the visual information screen but it will take time before you build up to that level. The trick is to listen to the length of the fade of the audio. The longer the fade, the bigger the target. It works when the coil is greater than 2 inches from the target.You may not hear it at first but that is quite normal. when pinpointing like this, your focus point is the 12 o'clock position of the inner coil. It is very accurate for locating targets too.
If you get a non repeating target, then it's normally junk. Start by only recovering targets down to 4 inches (6 if you feel confident).
Have fun and know that those early frustrations are what most of us went though at first, so it's quite normal.
All the best.
Mick Evans.

 

[NM5K]

Running into phantom objects is not all that unusual, and most have already mentioned the
reasons.
But.. I wonder about how you are pinpointing with the 250.. If done correctly, you don't have
to do it from two angles. Only one is enough. And to be really accurate, it's best not to try
to X a target using only side to side checks. Particularly if you are going side to side at
the wide middle part of the coil. Too much room for error. It's best to use the "pull back
until the tone quits" method. And you have to check side to side doing that also, but
being as when you get to the tone cutoff point, the side to side width of the coil is so
narrow, that you won't have nearly the room for error that you can using the wide part
of the coil. But I'm not sure exactly how you are doing it.. Maybe you are already
using the tone cut method to some degree, but need to detune more.

Detuning the pinpoint mode as one mentioned, can help a lot. One thing about
the pinpoint mode. It's always full sensitivity! Adjusting the sensitivity level only effects
the motion ID mode. It has no effect at all on the pinpoint mode. The only way to lower it,
is to detune. And as mentioned, this can greatly shrink down the area that is sounding
off, and can greatly increase the accuracy when pinpointing, by making things seem
much less broad, and instead more precise. If that makes any sense..
Anyway, the 250 can be real accurate when pinpointing once you get the hang.
I can nearly stab coins in place most times, and never use a shovel or digger.
I'll pinpoint an object, and then stab the X with my probe, and erupt a slit into the
ground. Then I stick the probe of my hand held pinpointer into the slot. 90% of the
time, it will be right where I stabbed it, and the pinpointer will be sounding off.
Pluck the goodie, stomp the slit back down, and off I go.

This is an old image I've posted a few times that shows how the pinpoint area will
mimic the shape of the coil being used. And it shows why it's most accurate doing
the side to side checks at the very end before the tone cuts out. At that narrow point,
it's very important to be right in the middle if you want to stab coins. But luckily, the
width is small at that point, so the possible error is fairly small. And you want to be
semi detuned at that point to further decrease error.
The only coil I do a side to side X using the middle of the coil, is the sniper. It's small
enough to let you get away with that.

 

[broadestpower]

n/t

 

[broadestpower]

Imathis,

When you go back over the hole and the plug and get no signal you have to change the mode that your in and then you will pick up your signal again.
If your getting a quarter signal most of the time but not solid it bounces once or twice your going to find your target in that area on the scale that it bounced once or twice to.
Go to the mode at the bottom, the zero mode and re-detect your plug and your hole and you will locate your target. It might not be what you wanted but you'll find it. Most
often your going to want to run the detectors sensitivity at about four notches.

 

[khouse]

I made a video on pinpointing with the Ace series machines. Just search for "How to pinpoint with the Ace 250" There are other vids out there too. Maybe you can pick up a tip that will help you?

 

[Ajstanger]

Great thread. I ordered my 1st MD (Ace 250) the other day from Kellyco. I am new to the hobby and am taking all pointers I can. I also picked up the Garrett Pro Pointer so I am hoping that will help some in "pinpointing" the object.
I hope the 250 is a good MD to get into this hobby with. Based on all my research I have made the correct choice. Only time will tell.
I am in MI and the ground is frozen so i will have to wait until it thaws. I am already chomping at the bit.

Thanks for all the useful info.

 

[Orion42]

The 250 sounds like a good choice for starting out, and the Pro Pointer is a great choice. I'm in the middle of the mitten, frozen up with a list of new places to check this spring.

John

 

[NM5K]

For the money, can't beat the 250 or 350. I've been running a 250 for six years, and I still
like it enough to not bother upgrading. I want to get my money's worth out of it.. chortle..
It does help to have a selection of coils. I have three of the Garrett coils, and I think that's
one reason why it's held up this long for me. The different coils make it pretty versatile.
I don't have any of the DD coils, but I never could see much point in those for what I do.
I use the stock 6x9, and the 9x12, and the sniper.
The sniper is deadly on the 250 in trashy or tight areas..
But it all depends where you are hunting as to what is best. Naturally, if you hunt big
fields most of the time, you would probably want one of the larger coils to cover more area
and go a tad deeper. And the stock 6x9 is not bad at all for average use. I still use it a
good bit of the time. Some brushy areas, it's too tight to swing the big coil without
whacking something every other swing, but still enough room to use the 6x9 vs say the sniper,
which while not bad, doesn't go quite as deep as the 6x9.
The pinpointer was a good move.. It's almost a must have with me.. Saves loads of time.