I just thought that my cell phone was the problem in my overactive Ace. And, yes, I had checked the tightness of the coil cable with the detector OFF. I kept reading of lots of people running theirs at 6-8 sensitivity- but 4-5 was as high as I was able without some false signals. Then, last week I checked the cable again with the detector ON and it went ballistic! Although it was indeed tight, it was wrapped around the shaft in such a way to cause tension when I was scanning. I relieved the pressure, and tightened it again and all the noise stopped. NOW I can actually run it almost full sensitivity with a minimum of falsing. And at 4-5 it's super quiet.
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Ace 250-coil cable-check it!
- Thread starter slingshot
- Start date
Full sensitivity does not help, its proper sensitivity, I never run mine above 6, usually 3-4, contrary to some beliefs more sensitivity does not lead to greater depth, just more bogus returns. I must admit I live in Florida and the soil here is mostly non-mineralized so I have few problems with mineralization, My cable wrap does not affect my operation, if its too tight in might be preventing proper seating of the connector, my best guess. Like they say, swing and dig, then do it again.
As I understand it, the detector always transmits the same signal and adjusting sensitivity merely tells the machine what it should consider a stable field. When something metal disturbs the field it causes the detecor to register a response. This means that sensitivity is loosely related to depth. That is my laymans interpretation of a more technical description.
I had an issue with my 2500 cable too and it caused me fits until I loosened it up a little and relieved the stress I had indvertently placed on the connector.
I am always adjusting my sensitivity depending upon what kind of hunt I'm doing, in what type of soil and with which coil. I run about 30 percent of max in bark chips with metal play equipment up to about 90 percent in very clean (not trashy) ballfields.
If you locate a coin at around 4-6 inches see if lowering the sensitivity causes you to lose the signal. I bet at very low sensitivity you still get a signal but not as strong or as regular.
Chris
I had an issue with my 2500 cable too and it caused me fits until I loosened it up a little and relieved the stress I had indvertently placed on the connector.
I am always adjusting my sensitivity depending upon what kind of hunt I'm doing, in what type of soil and with which coil. I run about 30 percent of max in bark chips with metal play equipment up to about 90 percent in very clean (not trashy) ballfields.
If you locate a coin at around 4-6 inches see if lowering the sensitivity causes you to lose the signal. I bet at very low sensitivity you still get a signal but not as strong or as regular.
Chris
You guys are exactly right. 4-5 is my mainstay. I also had a fabulous day a few days ago running it at 2 sens. Why? Well, the area was super trashy and everybody and his neighbor has searched the park and I just figured to have a little fun as everything was probably surface. It was super quiet and I actually found a zincer at 4". The only false sounds were targets that bounced from tab to nickel. And from uncle Willy's article I just sped the coil up on a questionable target and it either cleared up or beeped stronger.
Well, I sort of disagree on the sens vs depth issue.. Running hot *will* let you
find deeper objects, but you do have to put up with a bit more chatter at times.
But say you have an object at the limits of the coils depth. To detect that limit,
you will have to run pretty hot. If you reduce the sense to 2-4 range, the object
will not sound off in most cases. Turn it up high and it will.
I've tested this carefully in the real world, and with air tests both.
There is no doubt that running hot will increase the overall depth capability
with the trade off of more chatter. I see this the most with the 9x12 coil.
If I want the maximum depth that the coil is capable of, I must run pretty hot.
If I don't, the machine will pass over and ignore the objects at the depth
limits of that coil. Crank it up high, there they are... I've seen it over and over.
So if you are trying to find something really deep, it will make a difference.
But for average depths, very little.. Luckily, most coins, etc are within the
average depth ranges, so the sense setting is not really a big issue.
Myself, I've trained my ear to discern chatter from real targets, so I can run full
blast anywhere if I want to. But in most cases, I set it to the maximum setting
I can use with a fairly low amount of chatter. But in most cases, this is 6-8, and
often full blast if the ground allows it.
As an example, I was in OK this past weekend, and was doing a bit of tecting..
I was able to run nearly full blast most of the time, and I used all three coils at
one time or the other. I ran hot on all of them.
So anyway, I think it's best to adjust for what is comfy for the user. Some handle
chatter better than others...
But to say that the machine will not detect any deeper from running 6-8 vs 2-4 is
just not correct.
Running lower *does* stunt the maximum depth capability a bit.
This can be easily proven with careful testing.
As far as the cable, I run mine straight up the lower section of the rod, where it
is clamped to the rod with the tie wrap that came with the machine, and then
coiled up normally the rest of the way to the control head. Running the cable
straight and tight on the lower rod and coiling it only on the upper rod seems to
reduce chatter a bit. The most important thing is that the cable is real tight and
can not move as you whip the coil. If it moves, it will be seen as a target and
cause a blip of chatter.
My $2.29 worth anyway...
find deeper objects, but you do have to put up with a bit more chatter at times.
But say you have an object at the limits of the coils depth. To detect that limit,
you will have to run pretty hot. If you reduce the sense to 2-4 range, the object
will not sound off in most cases. Turn it up high and it will.
I've tested this carefully in the real world, and with air tests both.
There is no doubt that running hot will increase the overall depth capability
with the trade off of more chatter. I see this the most with the 9x12 coil.
If I want the maximum depth that the coil is capable of, I must run pretty hot.
If I don't, the machine will pass over and ignore the objects at the depth
limits of that coil. Crank it up high, there they are... I've seen it over and over.
So if you are trying to find something really deep, it will make a difference.
But for average depths, very little.. Luckily, most coins, etc are within the
average depth ranges, so the sense setting is not really a big issue.
Myself, I've trained my ear to discern chatter from real targets, so I can run full
blast anywhere if I want to. But in most cases, I set it to the maximum setting
I can use with a fairly low amount of chatter. But in most cases, this is 6-8, and
often full blast if the ground allows it.
As an example, I was in OK this past weekend, and was doing a bit of tecting..
I was able to run nearly full blast most of the time, and I used all three coils at
one time or the other. I ran hot on all of them.
So anyway, I think it's best to adjust for what is comfy for the user. Some handle
chatter better than others...
But to say that the machine will not detect any deeper from running 6-8 vs 2-4 is
just not correct.
Running lower *does* stunt the maximum depth capability a bit.
This can be easily proven with careful testing.
As far as the cable, I run mine straight up the lower section of the rod, where it
is clamped to the rod with the tie wrap that came with the machine, and then
coiled up normally the rest of the way to the control head. Running the cable
straight and tight on the lower rod and coiling it only on the upper rod seems to
reduce chatter a bit. The most important thing is that the cable is real tight and
can not move as you whip the coil. If it moves, it will be seen as a target and
cause a blip of chatter.
My $2.29 worth anyway...
I'm just waiting for a worthwhile area to crank'er up. Right now it's just plain unreasonable to run hot at the modern schools and new parks. That's probably the weakest part of my metal detecting-LOCATION. BUT, today I found 2 quarters at the 6-8" level running 4 sens. and boy did the Ace bong! It really loves those quarters. It was at an older park that is infested with and MANY screwcaps at the 6" level. AND, I have noticed that the depth level doesn't seem to fall of even though I'm in coins. Great machine. I'm moving it up to first place and considering using it in competition hunts since I've found out that sweep speed increases the depth and disc., as I'm also learinng to pinpoint while in motion and am going to use Liquid Paper to mark a white semi-circle on the pinpointing area to make it more visible while in motion. I'm good at this with my Tesoro and am getting good with the Ace and the higher visibility of the pinpoint circle should help these old eyes.
Uncle Willy
New member
Yeah with it's rapid response and recovery it should work great in competition.
Bill
Bill
Uncle Willy
New member
Actually cranking the sensitivity up doesn't drive the signal deeper into the ground. This is an old, long standing, myth. It just makes the coil more sensitive to what's in the ground and that includes every piece of junk that was ever dropped and the mineralization - all of which can mask and completely hide good targets.
Air tests prove absolutely nothing except that your detector is working and may find a coin at a given depth under ideal conditions - but I don't know of anyone who detects in the air. And air tests vary by detector. Some will detect deeper than they will air test while some will do just the opposite.
Years ago when I ran the Garrett Classroom one of my members ran his 2500 hot all the time and was complaining that the areas he had hunted for years were all hunted out. I told him to drop his sensitivity down to 6 or 6.5 and hit those areas again. He was blown away by what he found, includsing many old coins that he never dreamed were there. Sensitivity is a strange creature and will fool you often.
Bill
Air tests prove absolutely nothing except that your detector is working and may find a coin at a given depth under ideal conditions - but I don't know of anyone who detects in the air. And air tests vary by detector. Some will detect deeper than they will air test while some will do just the opposite.
Years ago when I ran the Garrett Classroom one of my members ran his 2500 hot all the time and was complaining that the areas he had hunted for years were all hunted out. I told him to drop his sensitivity down to 6 or 6.5 and hit those areas again. He was blown away by what he found, includsing many old coins that he never dreamed were there. Sensitivity is a strange creature and will fool you often.
Bill
[quote sandcrab]Full sensitivity does not help, its proper sensitivity, I never run mine above 6, usually 3-4, contrary to some beliefs more sensitivity does not lead to greater depth, just more bogus returns. I must admit I live in Florida and the soil here is mostly non-mineralized so I have few problems with mineralization, My cable wrap does not affect my operation, if its too tight in might be preventing proper seating of the connector, my best guess. Like they say, swing and dig, then do it again.[/quote]
I know this is going to be a stupid question, I can feel it .. lol .. but I truly don't know. I had the one bad trip out with our two Ace 250's and we feel it was because we were hunting next to each other, very close and had not been told about that. Also our cables were done wrong according to what I've been reading here, and now that's been corrected. It's been raining so we've not been back out, but I have one question about sensitivity .. you guys say 3-4 is a good range, is that 3-4 bars from the left, or from the right? I think I remember the plus sign being on the right side of the rocker button, so I'd assume that means you eliminate the sensitivity by taking the graph down to the far left, then moving up 3 or 4 notches to the right? Is that correct?
SnowCajun
I know this is going to be a stupid question, I can feel it .. lol .. but I truly don't know. I had the one bad trip out with our two Ace 250's and we feel it was because we were hunting next to each other, very close and had not been told about that. Also our cables were done wrong according to what I've been reading here, and now that's been corrected. It's been raining so we've not been back out, but I have one question about sensitivity .. you guys say 3-4 is a good range, is that 3-4 bars from the left, or from the right? I think I remember the plus sign being on the right side of the rocker button, so I'd assume that means you eliminate the sensitivity by taking the graph down to the far left, then moving up 3 or 4 notches to the right? Is that correct?
SnowCajun
And before you leave, did you guys have any cell phones on? they even affect my home computer when I turn it on. And, BTW, ALL detectors of the same mfg.,that I know, crosstalk (interfere) with one another if they're near the same operating frequency. And, if you haven't read Bill's tip about sweep and discrimination, here's what happened to me today. At my usual moderate pace, I got a zinc penny signal. I whipped the coil on the return sweep and the ID moved one notch lower-comparable to a square tab. It turned out to be a zinc penny with one side corroded out! I've really enjoyed find this bit of info out.
Sure, it's kind of like a squelch circuit on a radio. But however you describe it, the
machine will ultimately detect deeper when set hot, than when set mid range.
Of course you will get more chatter, but thats why I say you have to slightly adjust
for some grounds. And I've trained my ear to tell which is which, so doesn't bother
me much.
I've found many objects with the setting high, and then reduced as a test before I
dug it up, and the object would be totally missed at the lower settings.
It's for this reason mainly why I comment about it.. I wouldn't say it if I didn't see it
in the real dirt quite often.
An air test is pretty valid if you are comparing the machine to itself. IE: various
coils, sens settings, etc. It won't have much to do with how well in does in the dirt,
but it's accurate as far as hardware comparisons with a certain machine because the test
medium is very stable. IE: my 250 air tests the same, no matter time of year, weather, etc..
So it's accurate for testing sensitivity settings, comparing coils, etc.
I still think one should run how ever they feel comfortable.
I'm not claiming the "hot" method is for everyone. But... I think it's the way to get the very
maximum depth from the machine *if* you want it. I still will slightly adjust if the ground
is trashy or hot. But I always run it as hot as I can get away with with. I really don't get
much chatter on the ground I've been over so far. I ran nearly or full blast on all three coils
last weekend up in OK, and had little chatter or problems. But.. I guess the ground
is happy there. I am in the woods, with not that much trash.
I guess it's the hardware tinkerer in me.. I always "hot rod" about everything I use,
from my over clocked computers, ham radio setups, etc..
I always look for ways to get that last inch of performance if I want it. Sometimes I do.
Dunno about everyone else, but my 250 detects a good bit deeper set higher, than lower.
So thats how I usually run it.
I'll agree I might not be able to get away with it in other parts of the country though.
But.. I'd still set as hot as I could get away with even if it was only "4".
machine will ultimately detect deeper when set hot, than when set mid range.
Of course you will get more chatter, but thats why I say you have to slightly adjust
for some grounds. And I've trained my ear to tell which is which, so doesn't bother
me much.
I've found many objects with the setting high, and then reduced as a test before I
dug it up, and the object would be totally missed at the lower settings.
It's for this reason mainly why I comment about it.. I wouldn't say it if I didn't see it
in the real dirt quite often.
An air test is pretty valid if you are comparing the machine to itself. IE: various
coils, sens settings, etc. It won't have much to do with how well in does in the dirt,
but it's accurate as far as hardware comparisons with a certain machine because the test
medium is very stable. IE: my 250 air tests the same, no matter time of year, weather, etc..
So it's accurate for testing sensitivity settings, comparing coils, etc.
I still think one should run how ever they feel comfortable.
I'm not claiming the "hot" method is for everyone. But... I think it's the way to get the very
maximum depth from the machine *if* you want it. I still will slightly adjust if the ground
is trashy or hot. But I always run it as hot as I can get away with with. I really don't get
much chatter on the ground I've been over so far. I ran nearly or full blast on all three coils
last weekend up in OK, and had little chatter or problems. But.. I guess the ground
is happy there. I am in the woods, with not that much trash.
I guess it's the hardware tinkerer in me.. I always "hot rod" about everything I use,
from my over clocked computers, ham radio setups, etc..
I always look for ways to get that last inch of performance if I want it. Sometimes I do.
Dunno about everyone else, but my 250 detects a good bit deeper set higher, than lower.
So thats how I usually run it.
I'll agree I might not be able to get away with it in other parts of the country though.
But.. I'd still set as hot as I could get away with even if it was only "4".
As I said, I'm still looking for a Location where I can run it hot. Strangest thing here in East Texas is the large number of large iron objects and I'm thinking that it's because pipes, fittings, etc. from the fill dirt that these schools and parks are covered with-seems like they have a lot of trash in them. I get a lot of "dime" readings and can lift the coil a foot and still get the reading at higher sensitivities and I immediately know it's one of these objects. By running at #4 sensitivity, a lot of them won't bong, but they seem to always be at the 1 foot level. Sometimes, I can go to a school and find where an AM searcher has left a huge hole and I smile-bet he was mad-probably thought it was Captain Kidd's treasure chest!