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A Few Questions From A Landlubber
- Thread starter ninguid
- Start date
I think you have narrowed to a couple of good choices.
You can get a pretty good idea of depth doing a quick sizing of the target and by raising the coil and seeing where it stops detecting the target. If the detector normally sees targets at about 12 inches and you are 6 inches up when you loose it then you know. Some detectors give other indications ... just need time on the detector to figure it out.
You can get a pretty good pin point by paying attention to where the target is detected on the swing side to side and front to back.
You do dig and scan to make sure you got the target. I do some of that on land too.
I have a CZ 20 and a Sandshark. Both water proof headsets are reasonably comfortable. The ones with the Sandshark are very comfortable and isolate the outside noise a lot but get a little warm on hot days.
I don't use either water proof detector on land ... but took the CZ20 to a couple of tot-lots to get accustomed to it before getting wet. I can use it in the rain on land but it is a little heavy out of the water. If it is raining I have a CZ6 that I use on land since it is water resistant.
Not sure on the batteries with the two detectors you ask about. Although I pretty much stick with alkalines.
The CZ21 is pretty much a repackage of the CZ20. The CZ20 was known to have the pin point switch fail more than desired or have the membrane over the switch crack and leak. The CZ 21 repackage is reported to take care of these issues. My CZ 20 has had the pin point switch removed and the hole sealed. It has been reliable and has found gold at good depth for me. CZ's transition from the water to wet salt to dry sand wonderfully. The main mode of identifying targets with the CZ20 is tone ID. low tone is mostly iron and maybe some chains, mid tone is foil, and tab (the main gold range), high tone is where the coins mostly hit and silver rings.
I have not read much about the Viper, but any of the other detectors you talk about should get you good results in fresh and salt water, on the beach and on land. The water proof detectors do tend to be heavier than their equivalent land detectors. Balanced shafts can help. Some use a belt mount, I use a chest mount most of the time with the CZ20.
Hope that provides a little more info for you, even though I don't have detecting experience with the Whites or Minelab detectors you are looking at.
tvr
You can get a pretty good idea of depth doing a quick sizing of the target and by raising the coil and seeing where it stops detecting the target. If the detector normally sees targets at about 12 inches and you are 6 inches up when you loose it then you know. Some detectors give other indications ... just need time on the detector to figure it out.
You can get a pretty good pin point by paying attention to where the target is detected on the swing side to side and front to back.
You do dig and scan to make sure you got the target. I do some of that on land too.
I have a CZ 20 and a Sandshark. Both water proof headsets are reasonably comfortable. The ones with the Sandshark are very comfortable and isolate the outside noise a lot but get a little warm on hot days.
I don't use either water proof detector on land ... but took the CZ20 to a couple of tot-lots to get accustomed to it before getting wet. I can use it in the rain on land but it is a little heavy out of the water. If it is raining I have a CZ6 that I use on land since it is water resistant.
Not sure on the batteries with the two detectors you ask about. Although I pretty much stick with alkalines.
The CZ21 is pretty much a repackage of the CZ20. The CZ20 was known to have the pin point switch fail more than desired or have the membrane over the switch crack and leak. The CZ 21 repackage is reported to take care of these issues. My CZ 20 has had the pin point switch removed and the hole sealed. It has been reliable and has found gold at good depth for me. CZ's transition from the water to wet salt to dry sand wonderfully. The main mode of identifying targets with the CZ20 is tone ID. low tone is mostly iron and maybe some chains, mid tone is foil, and tab (the main gold range), high tone is where the coins mostly hit and silver rings.
I have not read much about the Viper, but any of the other detectors you talk about should get you good results in fresh and salt water, on the beach and on land. The water proof detectors do tend to be heavier than their equivalent land detectors. Balanced shafts can help. Some use a belt mount, I use a chest mount most of the time with the CZ20.
Hope that provides a little more info for you, even though I don't have detecting experience with the Whites or Minelab detectors you are looking at.
tvr
Ron J
Active member
I had a Surfmaster for awhile, but i feel the Excal is the way to go! I have had an Excal for 5 yrs or so,and love it. Depth is fantastic. Takes awhile like any unit to get to know the different tones, but you will learn fast what is junk or not. I still dig most anything on the beach. I usually don't waste my time on the dry sand. Perfer hunting at low tides, which i do year round, the wet sand doesn't freeze.(Boston area) Better have a real good scoop too! As for depth, between listening to the target, and lifting or lowering the coil, you will acquire a routine, to determine depth, on land or beach. As for the two for one deal, from Kellyco, i looked into it also. The second unit that is free, is a beginners unit,from a limited choice. Not a second Excal! Got to read the print.
RonJ is correct on the KellyCo 2fer1 sale. Depending on the price range of the first detector you buy, you then get to pick off a pre-determined list of low-end units. Nice units to give away to beginners or kids. I recently asked JW at KellyCo the top surf/beach detectors in sales and he said Excal is 1st and the BeachHunter is 2nd. Now, KellyCo does not sell Tesoro so it was not in the top 5 list, but I have heard good things about their Sand and Tiger Shark models. The Excal and White's are excellent VLF machines for the beach and saltwater. The Excal is good to about 200 feet and the BeachHunter can only go to 25 feet of depth. All surf/beach detectors rely on tone id, none have visual readouts unlike many of the land machines. The BH ID does have the 3 LED lights that I have read folks say is pretty reliable even when the iron mask is turned off. I have read folks using the BH on land, too, but not much about the Excal. The BH ID is $800 new and the Excal is 50% more.
Ron J said:
DOH!
I'm always reading the fine print and this one slipped by me. I wasn't thinking I'd get a second Excalibur, but I also didn't know that the free model was limited to those options.
Oh well, I'll still pick up a water machine and I'll have a "spare" unit that I won't feel bad keeping in my trunk for unexpected events.
Thanks for the otherfeedback on my questions.
I had not considered raising the coil off of the ground to determine depth. I guess it is all in what you get used to.
I've done some more reading of the Fisher CZ 21. I wasn't overly impressed by the lack of information I have found, but I do realize that the detector is rather new.
I'll keep looking and reading and will hopefully place my order this week.
Joel-Winnipeg
New member
When I got the BHID I'd pratice in soccer fields.
Found some silver rings and a nice men's gold band wedding ring pluse lots of clad.
I dug everything as our coins are nickel plated steel and would show in the red led light.
As far as depth the louder the signal and tones the closer to the surface it would be.
Softer the signal usually meant deeper.
Found some silver rings and a nice men's gold band wedding ring pluse lots of clad.
I dug everything as our coins are nickel plated steel and would show in the red led light.
As far as depth the louder the signal and tones the closer to the surface it would be.
Softer the signal usually meant deeper.
Think about the Infinium LS by Garret It has inter changeble coils and headset that you do not have to send to the factory to have changed it go's very deepI dig voin between 18 to 25 inches all the time. I own a CZ 20 an excal 1000 and My Infinium LS is what I use as my main detector .In fresh water it will go so deep its not funny. So think about ,The infinium LS was made to find GOLD so that ott to tell you something. So have fun with what ever you buy . Happy Huntting ,Ron Lord, Naples ,FL
Narthoniel
New member
1: Digging on the beach is not that hard, and its easy to cover holes. So yes, dig, scan, dig scan until you have the prize.
2: I have tried using the Excal2 on land, and it is a pain. Best bet is to keep your land machine and have 2 detectors to choose from depending on your hunting evniorn.
3: I have no problem with the Excal2's headphones. Used them for 5 or 6 hours at a time before.
4: The Excal2's tones are not foolproof, but they do give you a slight indication as to what may be down there. The only way to be sure is to dig. Again, its a beach and digging is easy.
5: As far as I know, there are no AA options for the Excal. The NiMh battery is very good, and works exceptionally well. If you keep your curent land machine, you'll eventually use the batteries with that one on your land hunts.
6: There is a trick to the Excal for pinpointing. Once you identify a target, sweep the coil left and right until you identify where the item is on a left to right basis. Once you have the centerpoint for the item, slowly move the coil torwards you, or away from you. When the target no longer makes a sound, then it is about 1 inch byond the coil, which will depend on which direction you move the coil. Just insert your scoop 4 inches behind the target and dig. I have only been using my Excal2 for a few months, and I have become very proficient at pinpointing. With practice, you will master it as well.
7: I have only used an Excal2, and can only vouch for it. It works well, and I am glad to have it. If you buy a new one, there is a good chance it will have some problems. All the new models seem to be defective, but, you could get lucky. Either way, it will be under warranty.
If you get an excal, most people like to purchase a straight shaft for it. The stock shaft is not balanced very well, and killed my hand. Once I had the new shaft, it was comfortable as heck. Also, a good scoop is not to be missed. Get a good one with a large basdket. It makes a HUGE difference. I personally use a Nuttall scoop, which while heavy, is very durable. My only regret is that the basket is not bigger.
If you want to ask me any other questions, it would be best to shoot me an email.
Anthony
2: I have tried using the Excal2 on land, and it is a pain. Best bet is to keep your land machine and have 2 detectors to choose from depending on your hunting evniorn.
3: I have no problem with the Excal2's headphones. Used them for 5 or 6 hours at a time before.
4: The Excal2's tones are not foolproof, but they do give you a slight indication as to what may be down there. The only way to be sure is to dig. Again, its a beach and digging is easy.
5: As far as I know, there are no AA options for the Excal. The NiMh battery is very good, and works exceptionally well. If you keep your curent land machine, you'll eventually use the batteries with that one on your land hunts.
6: There is a trick to the Excal for pinpointing. Once you identify a target, sweep the coil left and right until you identify where the item is on a left to right basis. Once you have the centerpoint for the item, slowly move the coil torwards you, or away from you. When the target no longer makes a sound, then it is about 1 inch byond the coil, which will depend on which direction you move the coil. Just insert your scoop 4 inches behind the target and dig. I have only been using my Excal2 for a few months, and I have become very proficient at pinpointing. With practice, you will master it as well.
7: I have only used an Excal2, and can only vouch for it. It works well, and I am glad to have it. If you buy a new one, there is a good chance it will have some problems. All the new models seem to be defective, but, you could get lucky. Either way, it will be under warranty.
If you get an excal, most people like to purchase a straight shaft for it. The stock shaft is not balanced very well, and killed my hand. Once I had the new shaft, it was comfortable as heck. Also, a good scoop is not to be missed. Get a good one with a large basdket. It makes a HUGE difference. I personally use a Nuttall scoop, which while heavy, is very durable. My only regret is that the basket is not bigger.
If you want to ask me any other questions, it would be best to shoot me an email.
Anthony
Do not expect a water machine to act like a land machine. They are two different breeds, their construction is different because they are waterproof. There are no waterproof readouts available that are affordable at this time. You do not need the depth of an object because you will be using a scoop and with practice you will get it within one or 2 tries. Both Minelab Excal and Whites are excellent machines.......your pocketbook will make the choice. Fisher is a little heavy and do you see anyone raving about the Viper (that should be your answer!).
A Cheap underwater detector will give you nothing but frustration and poor results. You can get by with a lesser detector in the drysand and to a certain extent the wet sand but once you go subaqua it's quality or nothing.
Excal, CZ-21, BHID, Surf PI DF, Infinium, etc.; they all cost more because they all get the job done and they do it well in a tough environment.
Good Hunting,
BDA
Excal, CZ-21, BHID, Surf PI DF, Infinium, etc.; they all cost more because they all get the job done and they do it well in a tough environment.
Good Hunting,
BDA
Thanks for the feedback guys.
I placed an order tonight for a Minelab Excalibur II.
I really would have liked to try each unit out before making a purchase of this size, but my chances of locating such machines around me (in the middle of winter) seems rather remote.
I'll work with the Excalibur in the yard, some fields, a river bed/bank and such to get a feel for it and the tones it creates. With luck I'll be ready to jump into the waves when some warmer weather arrives.
I suppose I'll be looking for some wet or dry scuba gear or hip type waders at the yard sales and flea markets now!
I think I'll also make up a digging tool for the wet sand.
Narthoniel I ordered a AA battery pack for the Excalibur at the same time as it would be handy to be able to use regular batteries if ran out of juice unexpectedly in the stock battery pack. It was called a: Excalibur II Water-Resistant alkaline battery pod. I still have no idea if rechargeable AA batteries will work with it. From the Minelab manual I quote "Always use good quality alkaline batteries. - Rechargeable NiMH batteries cannot be used in the Alkaline pack, as they do not provide sufficient voltage".
I'll load up a set of alkalines and my rechargeables and see what sort of output the two provide.
I'm going to see how the stock shaft feels and then change it if it is as bad as everyone says. Thanks for the other great tips!
I placed an order tonight for a Minelab Excalibur II.
I really would have liked to try each unit out before making a purchase of this size, but my chances of locating such machines around me (in the middle of winter) seems rather remote.
I'll work with the Excalibur in the yard, some fields, a river bed/bank and such to get a feel for it and the tones it creates. With luck I'll be ready to jump into the waves when some warmer weather arrives.
I suppose I'll be looking for some wet or dry scuba gear or hip type waders at the yard sales and flea markets now!
I think I'll also make up a digging tool for the wet sand.
Narthoniel I ordered a AA battery pack for the Excalibur at the same time as it would be handy to be able to use regular batteries if ran out of juice unexpectedly in the stock battery pack. It was called a: Excalibur II Water-Resistant alkaline battery pod. I still have no idea if rechargeable AA batteries will work with it. From the Minelab manual I quote "Always use good quality alkaline batteries. - Rechargeable NiMH batteries cannot be used in the Alkaline pack, as they do not provide sufficient voltage".
I'll load up a set of alkalines and my rechargeables and see what sort of output the two provide.
I'm going to see how the stock shaft feels and then change it if it is as bad as everyone says. Thanks for the other great tips!
I TIGed it together and have not had to make any adjustments to it. I also made a nice stainless scoop. When you do get around to acquiring a scoop, try to insure it is stainless. Aluminum is lighter... but ss is far tougher and will last almost forever.
Fair winds
Mikie
Fair winds
Mikie
Hi Mikey, I've been as busy as a one armed paper hanger running a new construction company down here. I barely get to hunt anymore but I did manage to get in a single hunt last week on a trip to Tulum, Mexico.
Bermuda has been pretty slow this past year, at least on the few hunts I've been on, especially since the beaches were sanded in by a couple of CAT 1 hurricanes this season. Sometimes the Surf God giveth and sometimes he taketh away.
Cheers Bud,
Eric
Bermuda has been pretty slow this past year, at least on the few hunts I've been on, especially since the beaches were sanded in by a couple of CAT 1 hurricanes this season. Sometimes the Surf God giveth and sometimes he taketh away.
Cheers Bud,
Eric
Steve from Ohio
New member
Get the NIMH battery pack that is for the Excalibur on the ebay. Made in America. Fits great. !600 MAH and 12 volts with 10 cells.
Don't use the rechargeable AA batteries because they will give you only 9.6 volts----8 x 1.2----not enough voltage.
NIMH 10 cell on the bay Cost about 35 bucks + shipping but well worth it. Can be put in the Alkaline battery pack and is waterproof to 10 feet. I've gotten about 26 hours out of those batteries so far and still pumping out good power.
You'll get twice the life out of the new battery packs than the NICAD from Minelab and you can use the factory recharger on the NIMH batteries which will work with the alkaline pack also.
I figure that the NIMH pack is $130 .....but if you get the alkaline pod with the NIMH battery pack, the total cost is $85 plus shipping.
No you cannot dive down to 250 feet with the alkaline pod, but it is good for about 10 feet with no problems according to Minelab. I tried it at 15 feet for several hours and it was bone dry.
Get the straight shaft. You will not regret it. And make sure you get the knob guard. Breaking off a knob is not a fun thing to do.
Don't use the rechargeable AA batteries because they will give you only 9.6 volts----8 x 1.2----not enough voltage.
NIMH 10 cell on the bay Cost about 35 bucks + shipping but well worth it. Can be put in the Alkaline battery pack and is waterproof to 10 feet. I've gotten about 26 hours out of those batteries so far and still pumping out good power.
You'll get twice the life out of the new battery packs than the NICAD from Minelab and you can use the factory recharger on the NIMH batteries which will work with the alkaline pack also.
I figure that the NIMH pack is $130 .....but if you get the alkaline pod with the NIMH battery pack, the total cost is $85 plus shipping.
No you cannot dive down to 250 feet with the alkaline pod, but it is good for about 10 feet with no problems according to Minelab. I tried it at 15 feet for several hours and it was bone dry.
Get the straight shaft. You will not regret it. And make sure you get the knob guard. Breaking off a knob is not a fun thing to do.