A couple of Questions

[erikk]

I have about 80 hours on the EX2 and am doing alot better than with my DFX. I have entered a program based on what I read in Andys book. I have just accepter 1/2,1/4,Dimes nickles and a couple of gold rings. Everything else is blacked out. What I am wondering is that at times I will cover a piece of ground and completely lose the threshold even when the sens is not very high 12-18 auto I am in Florida so there isn't much mineralization. Also I have no clue how or when to use iron mask. I have read alot of posts
but I still haven't got a handle on it. I am basically just coin shooting for now so I am using digital and dig anything that is close to the posted #'and has a high tone... I have eye trouble and that is all I can see
Today I found a place under a tree that both a friend and I had gone over with the DFX. I dug 22 dimes, 11 quarters and 3 pennies (all clad) but they were in an area about 20 feet square. Some were 6-8 inches, others were surface to 3 inches. I know there was alot of junk there too but it didn't seem to bother me.I guess what I am asking can I use iron mask pattern in digital at the same time?
Sorry for the rambling

 

[Mike (Virginia Beach)]

OK, that's pretty easy.

One - The reason you are losing your threshold and it's "nulling out" is that because of what you have ACCEPTED, you have also REJECTED quite a bit. A lot of junk and all iron as well. So when you lose the threshold it's because you're going over something that you have knocked out. Given that you're running the sens low like you are, it's not likely you're going too fast. But if you have FAST on, you should have DEEP off and vice versa. I always hunt with FAST off an DEEP on. And go fairly slow so that I can maintain a smooth threshold. But I also run "wide open", which brings us to your second question.

Two - Iron Mask. It's actually a misnomer, because as most people use it, Iron Mask "On" is actually Iron Mask OFF. And I say that because people go to Iron Mask most of the time so that they can run it down to -16, which effectively means NO Iron Mask. So the machine is essentially in All Metal. But with full tonal and Digital/Smartfind ID capability. So what you get it that you hear EVERYTHING and you dig what you think sounds or looks good. The upside is that you nearly never lose your threshold. The downside is that you HEAR EVERYTHING. But after a while you get used to it and many prefer it. I do, because I like not losing the threshold as much and I like being able to pick good targets out from trash a little easier if I can hear both of them. You need to try it and give it a chance and see if it's for you.

Hope that helps a little...

 

[erikk]

Thanks mike, that helps a lot. So basically running wide open is like the old days when I was running a Whites TR 66 or a D-Tex BFO and needed to "learn the sounds" and your discriminator is a shovel. The only difference is that the new machines go a lot deeper and to be SURE to get the good stuff you have to dig

 

[Mike (Virginia Beach)]

Well, yes...SORT OF. I'm not advocating digging EVERYTHING. Although as you have pointed out, the best booty goes to those that do. What I'm saying is that when you run wide open like that you get more information. Like instead of just a null, you can know you're over iron. Or trash. Or pull that Merc dime from next to a rusty nail maybe a little easier because instead of a null from the nail you hear the nail AND the dime. And many feel that when you remove discrimination you also let me the machine get a little more depth in some cases. But the main point is that you listen to EVERYTHING and you dig what sounds (or READS) good. And that goes to your point about learning the tones and the numbers...the ultimate key to success.

 

[Cody]

Errik, iron mask is discrimination as is the Smart screen. In iron mask discrimination is set so that there are 16 "zones" of ferrous content. As an example if set to IM15 then all 31 conductive levels of ferrous content in zone "15" are rejected.

Consider an IM12..........then all 31 conductive levels of ferrous content at "12,13,14, and 15" are rejected.

In the Smart screen we can reject ferrous content and conductive levels down to the single pixel level. Therefore we could reject just conductive level 28 of ferrous content 15 (IM15) if we want to.

If we turn IRON MASK ON then digital uses the IM settings and when OFF we use the Smart screen settings for discrimination. If we use Smart screen the same is true in that when IM is on we use the IRON MASK settings and when OFF we use the Smart Screen settings.

So Digital and the Smart screen use IRON MASK discrimination settings when ON but Smart Screen settings when OFF.

Iron Mask is not something that operates in the background to MASK iron but rather is discrimination settings that allow the user to UNMASK by using these settings to indicate the presence of IRON based on FERROUS content of the metal. This is where the threshold blanking comes into play. If we have IM16 we detect all metals so the threshold should not null and we hear all metals.

You will notice if we use the Smart screen and clear the upper left of the screen, 0/31, we will almost never hear a null. Most iron that nulls the threshold is at these conductive ferrous digital readings.

I read your post down the page and you are correct in that we are back to the old Whites 66 in some ways except we have ground rejection with all metal detecting. We had to adjust the old 66 because the soil minerals would cause the threshold to increase and decrease. Ground rejection is discrimination for soil iron minerals which was what George Payne invented with the first VLF.

 

[erikk]

Thanks guys. I am going to take it to a place that I know still has silver but is littered with iron, especially nails. I am going to run it wide open and see what happens!

 

[Nascarfan]

Mike, Awesome reply to the threshold problem......I was wondering if running like that makes your good sounds, sound a bit different vs with discrimination..... I have an xs and am having the same difficulty losing threshold, I too, am going to try this method. I have read where alot of people switch to Ferrous sounds for this type of setup......What do you recommend!! One thing I do know, is that when I lose my threshold, I lose depth for sure!!! Thanks for your input, Nascarfan

 

[Mike (Virginia Beach)]

Yes, I think that running wide open in IM definitely restricts the machine less, provides cleaner hits, and better threshold for sure. I also like Ferrous sounds over Conductive...I find it harder to get fooled by rusty nails and other trash that way. Try switching back and forth for a while on the types of targets you're looking for, like silver coins, gold rings, relics, etc. and see what you think. It's a matter of preference but I think MOST of the experienced hunters usually go Ferrous.

Mike

 

[RandyNorthridgeca]

I think you're right on Mike! I always run wide open. At first all those tones will frustrate you until you get use to them.

 

[SNOWY]

What you guys are saying is true regarding hunting in "iron mask."
Last week at a big old country property I was detecting as usual in this multi sized iron trashed environment.
I was in IM wide open
ferrous sounds
pitch hold
tone at minimum
variability 10
limits 10
sens 23 ( manual )
the worst iron trash for me was pieces of square rust rotten sheet metal that could give "high cond" squeals, and try to fool you that they were silver or copper.
But I was in smart find and the cursor usually leaps from left to right in this situation indicating a ferrous target.
and was being bombarded with the rumble of so much iron.
I re-set IM to 28, this reduced the rumble a lot without too much iron discrimination...
Worked ok for me on the day!!!

HH

Snowy

 

[Dick from NC]

Erikk, the ironmask is a quick way to get to all metal (-16). Some people like to hunt in all metal, which means you will pick up everything, but they may not want to pick up nails or iron items so they can adjust the screen to maybe -15 or -14. The more you black out the screen the more you discriminate out. The smart screen discriminates out about half the targets. Most of the coins and good stuff are on the right side of the screen. If you are hunting for civil war relics you might want to hunt in all metal because alot of good items are iron. Relic hunters will hunt in all metal but they will black out the very left edge of the screen -15, -14, so they don't spend all day digging rusty nails. Try going to IM -16 and putting some iron items and metal items of various kinds on the ground and see where they show up on the screen. Then start to black out the screen 1 number at a time until you discriminate out the items. You should get a pretty good idea of what is happening. Good luck and happy hunting.

 

[raptro5618]

Another vote for nothing discriminated out and ferrous tones. I hate having the sound nulled out. With it wide open I seem to hear some hidden tones. Of course like above often it is when you come off the edge of a piece of metal. But after a while you can tell when this is what is happening. At times I still dig but often knowing that it probably is not something good.

Last time out I found something that was just a tiny beep in the middle of iron. It took me a bit to decide to dig but I did and there was something there. If the sound was being nulled out I never would have even slowed down over that spot.

I think it is still true that the human brain can think through things in ways that a computer can not. So combining my ability to reason and evaluate to the capabilities of the Explorer I think that my ability to know when it is something good is greatly enhanced.

All that noise is pretty confusing in the beginning but after a while you get used to it. Also if you look at Andy's book for the Quattro he has a chart that to me shows how using Conductivity it really would be hard to discriminate out what you are scanning. Too many things share the same numbers in conductivity while there is more variation in Ferrous. That is when I decided to listen to ferrous and even after switching between them I still feel ferrous is best for me.