9" Round HF Coil

[CZconnoisseur]

Hello all,

Haven't been detecting as much lately, much to do with getting ready to move across town....but last weekend we got it done, got it over with; and now things are settling back to normal.

Mike and I hunted the new rental property, built in 1949, and is a corner lot with a few generous sidewalk strips and a school not far away that's been turning up some keepers.

So I've had this idea....

"Hunt Out" the sidewalk strips, in 4khz, digging every non-ferrous hit as well as the easy iron targets. So far - it's been an unusual amount of trash vs coins, and every now and then a Wheat pops up from 5-6" down. Mike and I hunted it once before...he pulled a 1919 Merc and a little later I dug an 1895 Indian cent from the front yard from about 7"

Some of the "easy" coins found at 4-5" depth really sounded iffy - but this makes me wonder what's not getting detected at 7-8" in some spots - I kept digging mostly pennies from 4-5" and the audio wasn't the best - maybe a bit weak for a coin at only a moderate depth....

This ground seems more mineralized than usual - the mineralization "bar" is about "half-full" most of the time between the yard and sidewalk strips.

So I'm thinking of adding a 9" Round HF coil to the arsenal, and wondering if it will get another little bit of depth - it would be nice to compare/contrast the 11" regular coil with the 9" Round HF coil (not the elliptical). Has anyone "hunted out" an area with any of the Deus black coils and then returned with the HF coils and found much more masked stuff? I live in gold country as well so the HF coil wouldn't be a "one-trick pony"...but if it can see a little better in the "Hot" soil then it may be worth selling the WS5s....

I'm almost to the point of substituting hearing aids with a Bluetooth relay hardwired to the Deus remote, this way I can detect with an open-ear arrangement and not worry about the WS5 phones, especially in the summer months....

 

[squirrel1]

I have both the round HF and the elliptical.

Some info.
Will add more here shortly.
More data.
Comparing round 9" HF coil to 9" LF coil.

Over a deep nickel.

The round HF coil seems is letting this nickel through easier tonally using all freq bands.

What I did is set Reactivty to levels 0 and 1,, both coils.
And set silencer to maximum.

Using the 9" LF coil at reactivity level 0 with maximum silencer set,,,good luck finding this nickel,,,no cigar.
Advancing reactvity to level 1 with a maximum silencer I can hear the nickel.,shoddy tone, extremely burping sounding, Coil position when swept extremely critical to even get this burpy short tone.

Now using the Round HF coil with Reactivty set to 0 with maximum silencer,, tone is provided burpy sounding, coil position extremely critical-- mimmicks tone wise coil behavior position wise close to LF coil using Reactivty level 1 at maximum silencer setting.

Advance Reactivty to level one, maximum silencer a good signal,,very diggable,,much more coil position forgiving here vs LF coil equivalent settings.

The test above were done with HF coil at freqs 14.4khz and 28.8 kHz.
LF coil set to 17730 Hz.
Both coils set to
Hot program, sens 92, audio resp 5, ground balance adhieved with each coil and or freq used.
5 ticks in the mineral strength meter when pumping coil over down ground.

Might add using reactivity levels 2 2.5, 3 and 4 and with silencer set set to -1,,, round HF coil much more coil position friendly to get dig me tone. Sweep speed more friendly too(allows faster sweep when nickel is flushed vs LF coil).

Five more hours yesterday hunting using round HF coil.

Used yesterday for open field relic hunting.

This setup is the Bomb.
At least in my soil.
This coil likes irregular shaped, flat, out of round, thinner,,,but for whatever reason round like as in marbel shaped,,,this coil tries to throw tone more toward iron tone. Round object doesn't have to be deep either.

Coil using 28.8 kHz is super duper swing speed forgiving, yet it locks on tonally like no tomorrow.

I played a lot today with tracking GB.
It does work,,,but repeated swings over iron can cause it to track out. Not too many swings either.
If you lay detector down to recover target with tracking on,,,good chance it will lose track too.
For example actual ground phase using 28.8khz was around 69.
When the detector tracked out due to iron it would go somewhere around 60/61 every time.
When I layed detector down, every single time it would track to 82/83.
Beginners using this setup and if you use tracking, be mindful when laying detector down.
It can cause your discovered target to vanish if you decide to swing over during recovery phase.

A very high majority of nonferrous targets recovered today, with plug dug, and even with them remaining incredibly intact and upside down,,,swing coil over plug,,,iron tone to near iron tone produced. Finds were there alright. (Most had no iron noted in plug either)

This coil today ran nice and stable with a sens of 92 dialed in.

Them old square nails suspended vertically in the ground can throw one for a loop every now and then.

The coil using 28.8 kHz smacks lead, brass extremely well, them old flat buttons too.

Was even successful hunting in tall weeds/hay using the coil.

I look forward to seeing from feedback from folks using this detector coil setup along with the elliptical coil up around the Cullpeper area.


Welcome to Deus Land. Lol

Been testing the round HF coil I received as of late.

Some preliminary data.

Round HF coil not as emi friendly as the elliptical.
And this friendliness of the round HF coil gets more unfriendly when detector is set to highest band frequency wise.

Doing some comparing at different distances, if 2 or three buds are hunting together and whichever is using the round HF coil, and they own to run same freq band for detecting, frequency offset likely needed.

Actually in these 2 places I have tested Round HF coil and compared to elliptical HF coil,,,highest band selected using round HF coil I rate as very unsatisfactory for good detecting.
Elliptical coil different ballgame,,when in highest band a few chirps but nothing to take away from worthy detecting IMO.

How do all 3 detectors feel with the different coils installed.
Winner obviously the one with elliptical.

I have no scales but detector with round HF coil when held perpendicular feels heavier than LF 9" coiled unit.
But in the coil detecting position, one would beleive the round HF coil setup is lighter feeling.

Now I have a 10 deep nickel.

The round HF coil bust this baby.
I can if you can beleive this get a very good diggable signal with coil height 6.5-7" off the ground. (Reactivty setting 1) Hot program used. NO GB manipulation done.
I should also mention here,,if I keep raising coil and sweeping, Tone providedstarts turning more iron sounding, and with continue progression upwards more grunt sounding.


What I want to know is what advantage(s) do these coils may give me.

Well, here's a pic that might show one.

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That IH under the plane of nail.
I only used the hot program thus far checking
The elliptical coil,,the IH is invisible.

Both the round HF coil and the LF 9" round will give me signal on coin.
What differences do I note between the 2 round coils?
Signal is generally cleaner with the HF coil,,when best settings are used for both.

Biggest difference in my opinion,,coil height, round HF coil yields considerable more coil height and still gives me something to investigate.

Something else worth mentioning,
Makes me wonder if version 4.0 wasn't built around this 9" round HF coil.
Why do I say this?

Because so far this round HF coil seems to link up faster,,reminds me of version 3.2 using LF coils.

My LF coil use and elliptical coil use,,,coils don't seem to link up as fast using 4.0 version.

More data.
Took round HF coil to 2 more remote sites.

This coil, closer chirpiness wise to LF coils,,maybe a tad better using 2 lower bands of freqs,,,didn't try upper band in these 2 sites.

This coil IMO not as fun overall audio wise to hunt with vs elliptical.
Disclaimer: No lightning or thunder noted in either of those 2 sites, Clouds from TD Harvery though may be charged up.

Using hot program sens at 90 28.8 kHz, Reactivty level 2.5,,sweeping detector giving quite a bit of ground feedback, running dead on GB too.
Raising Reactivty to 3 seemed to help somewhat.

Much easier to run elliptical with negative GB a few points vs this coil,,in these 2 sites.

I can also say, much easier on average to let a small find slip by using round coil vs elliptical coil.

Also, since I have several now continuous hours on elliptical coil,,,using same program same settings today in these 2 sites, audio sounded like using the round HF coil like someone turned my car stereo up from level 7 to level 10.
Blaring volume wise.

Still see no delays when turning in Deus with the round HF coil mounted.
Turn on coil is locked and loaded.
Even changing freqs, she locks and loads fast,,no beating around the bush,

More later.

Alright some comparisons using LF 9" coil at 18khz
The round HF coil
The elliptical HF coil.

10" deep nickle, cap is placed for reference and not moved,,only the nail.
Hot program used in all cases here, sens at 92 Reactivty 2.5 silencer -1, GB to ground. Zero disc full tones used, audio response 5, level six volume on wireless headphones.
Sweep down the direction of ruler and get something tonally for me to investigate.
Two way signal provided in all pics below when swept, with settings noted.
First pic below round HF coil, freq set to 28.8 kHz,,,,14.4khz will not pass this test in pic.

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Next pic round HF coil freq dialed up to 54khz

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Next pic 9" LF coil at 18khz same settings otherwise.

Next pic HF elliptical set to 14.4khz

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Next pic hf elliptical dialed to 28.8khz

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Next pic HF elliptical dialed to 74khz
Special note here, the nail gets sparky using this freq, but I can hear the nickel signal.

Same nickle in pics above with nail removed.
Using LF9" coil and round HF coil.
Hot program used on both Reactivty at 2.5, silencer -1, audio response 5, wireless vol 6, gB to ground. TX power 2 on LF coil. Zero disc setting full tones.
Try to see how low sens wise I can go and get a good signal although weak.
9"LF coil in 18khz sens could be lowered to 68.
9"LF did in 12khz sens could be lowered to 72

9" Round HF coil.
In 14.4khz sens could be lowered to 68
In 28.8khz sens could be lowered to 62
In 54khz sens could be lowered to 60.

Elliptical HF coil same goal as above. Same settings.
In 14.4khz sens could be lowered to 82
In 28.8khz sens could be lowered to 73
In 74khz sens could be lowered to 63.

More data. The experiement above. Yesterday the ground was dry.
Today it has been soaked by soaking rain. 3" roughly, nice slow rain mostly.
So again back to this same nickel and the goal was to see how low sensitivity wise I could get a good signal although weak.
Same settings used as above.

9" LF coil
In 12 kHz sens could be lowered to 68
In 18khz sens could be lowered to 69

9" round HF coil.
In 14.4khz sens could be lowered to 69
In 28.8khz sens could be lowered to 67
In 54 kHz sens could be lowered to 63

Elliptical HF coil
In 14.4khz sens could be lowered to 85
In 28.8khz sens could be lowered to 72
In 74khz sens could be lowered to 63

Both HF coils will find stuff LF coil won't, in mild or hot soil.
Some stuff nonferrous will be seen by one and not by the other HF coil, if detecting scenario is there,,and vice versa.

The 54khz is IMO more useable on the round HF coil for coins and relics.
But the elliptical even using 28.8khz freq band does extremely well.

Both these coils deeper in higher mineral ground vs LF 9" coil,, I haven't tested 11" coil- I have one.
And this is suing even the 14.4khz band with the HF coils too.

In hotter ground,,the tone presented by both HF coils is more refined, less ground effect mixed in with tone.
Elliptical coil is deep for its size.

Elliptical coil is much more emi friendly vs round.
If I were doing a lot of detecting in town,,,elliptical coil -no brainer.

Hope this info helps

 

[CZconnoisseur]

Wow squirrel! That's a lot of info...many thanks for the in-depth comparison between the three coils! ...and driving a Toyota too! Thank you for your analysis!

We have magnetite and some limonite as our primary iron-containing soil minerals, varying in concentrations from one square foot to the other....then mix this with road salt for the sidewalk and sidewalk strips which makes for some difficult ground in some places!

I think you're onto something about the 9" HF coil being designed around v4.0, clearer tonal signals is what I'm after and I know that simply changing from a 11" to a 9" coil will clear up a lot of signals as well. Maybe the v4.0 software processes faster, surely the coil windings inside the HF coils wouldn't be the same as the black coils, because of the operating frequency of course.

Many people don't like v4.0 because of the supposed "not much different" reaction from people who've gotten used to v3.2....but, I can say for sure that v4.0 is moderately more refined and efficient while using the black coils - the VDI at depth is a little better, however; I'm used to digging those iffy hits that often register "88-91" and turn out to be a very deep (8-inch plus) coin in our soil using 4kHz. Almost everything that's indicated "95-98" has been deep iron, at the same depth as the deep coins; only the coins will give a definite "non-ferrous" tonal indication vs a square nail at the same depth

 

[Yascin]

How can you lower silencer on HF coil. I dont think this is possible.

 

[squirrel1]

How can you lower silencer on HF coil. I dont think this is possible.

Same way as you so using LF coil.

Really about the only thing you don't have adjustment wise using HF coil wise vs LF coil is no normalization of Vdi allowed.

 

[CZconnoisseur]

Squirrel1...again, thank you for all your hard work! I wonder if you replaced the 10" deep nickel with a 10" deep silver quarter and then followed up with a 10" deep silver dime what kind of responses would you get per frequency?

The US nickel (21mm) is exactly in-between the diameter of a US dime (18mm) and US Quarter (24mm)....despite the difference in composition. I'd bet that the HF coil won't get the dime and quarter as clear as the LF coil....but I do know that 4khz doesn't hit nickels very hard but likes copper pennies on up....esp. at depth.

The 9" round HF coil is looking more favorable!

The kids and I are planting daffodil bulbs this weekend, and what better tool to use than the Ground Shark....while I'm at it I think it's time to make my own test garden in that particular soil

 

[squirrel1]

Squirrel1...again, thank you for all your hard work! I wonder if you replaced the 10" deep nickel with a 10" deep silver quarter and then followed up with a 10" deep silver dime what kind of responses would you get per frequency?

The US nickel (21mm) is exactly in-between the diameter of a US dime (18mm) and US Quarter (24mm)....despite the difference in composition. I'd bet that the HF coil won't get the dime and quarter as clear as the LF coil....but I do know that 4khz doesn't hit nickels very hard but likes copper pennies on up....esp. at depth.

The 9" round HF coil is looking more favorable!

The kids and I are planting daffodil bulbs this weekend, and what better tool to use than the Ground Shark....while I'm at it I think it's time to make my own test garden in that particular soil

I will try both dime and quarter,,10" deep. Will be freshly buried though.

In the meantime , here is a video, no mine btw.
With the elliptical coil.
This person's dirt about what my dirt is mineral strength wise.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=J6mPotkwp6c

 

[squirrel1]

Not much detecting done today.
Was ask to test a 10" deep clad dime uaing round HF coil for a gent.
So thought I would share here.

I compared the round HF, 9" LF and the elliptical HF coil over 3 different freshly buried clad dimes 10" deep in the same field.
Mineral strength meter reads 6 ticks.
Audio response 5, headphone vol6, sens dialed to 92 on all.
The HF coils were allowed only to be run at their center freq per freq band.
Plugs wer kept intact as possible, coin placed in side of hole, with a lot of stomping on the plug afterwards.
All 3 buried dimes yielded for a practical purposes the same results.

All three dimes using all three coils were compared from the best possible angle of sweeping over the buried dimes.

First off LF 9" coil,,no diggable signal, using any programs and settings I could think of. Even deep mode tx power 2 and 3.
Did not try to manipulate GB on any of the coils

Round HF coil gave best signal using deep program and freqs of 28.8 kHz and 54khz.
14khz only pecked on the dime. Reactivty settings 2 and 2.5 silencer -1,,,btw signal could be acquired even with silencer maxed.
Running Reactivty below 2.5 did seem to add some iron component to signal and made a bit more choppy.
Inwould likely stick with Reactivty 2.5 when hunting this ground based on what I heard using this coil,,,for max depth.
Reactivty 3 silencer -1,,signal a no go.
Tried hot program,,using 14.4khz good luck finding this dime!!!
Using 28.8khz gave a signal but not as good as deep program.
Using 54 kHz gave a signal better than using this same program and 28.8khz.

Deus fast program,,14.4khz a no go.
Using freq 28.8 kHz a signal gotten worse than signal obtained using hot program same settings.
Using freq 54khz a signal worse than hot program same settings.

GM Power actually gave the second best signal obtained.
But 14.4khz again a no go.
Using 28.8 kHz sounded smooth but weaker than deep program same settings.
Using 54khz sounded ok but had seemed more of an iron component to tone,,still Inwould dig.

Now for the elliptical.
First off Reactivty setting could be dialed to level 2 and produce morseso the no irony sounding tone similar to round HF coil-- with freqs and programs/ settings where dime was detected.

Hot program.
Using 14.4khz good luck finding this dime!!!
Using 28.8 kHz sounded nice,, weak though,,would dig.
Uaing 54khz sounded ok, broader signal,,would dig.

Deep program.
Using 14.4khz only signal I got, I would rate because I knew the dime was down there,,,would likely never dig.
Using 28.8khz nice signal, a tad more coil height (not much).
Didn't try 74khz.

Deus fast
Using 14.4khz good luck finding this dime!!
Using 28.8khz a shady signal, person better be on their game to hear this one and dig.

GM power
Using 14.4khz good luck finding this dime!!
Uaing 28.8khz a good signal I would rate a signal value wise in between signal achieved. using hot program and deep program.

These test more or less mirror a lot of what I saw when Imcompared coils over some zinc washers that have been buried since 1992/1994.

Relic hunters, maybe even coin hunters who have ground as minerlized or even moreso,,,Round HF coil and elliptical seems to have some advantage.
Depth.

Now there are also some separation advantages as well.

Seems in my area using the 14.4khz on the HF coils, would is it good for?
Certainly not depth, or separation.

Maybe it might make a good depth meter.
Reckon.
Get a signal with no iron tone using higher freqs, toggle to 14.4khz and no signal.. Yep that might tell me some thing.

In my soil it seems the round HF coil by the strength of signal I heard today comparing does have some depth advantage.

In taller grass round HF coil definitely has advantage for depth moreso.

The elliptical coil,,it just might be when you consider all things (higher mineral, depth, separation) using Deus v4 platform to be the overall most versatile setup made to date.
Too bad on the ID side of the house though.
But it will give tone.
Better than nothing.

Wish Inwould have had my deep tech warrior with me.
I would tried it too.
Maybe another day.

Cheers

 

[squirrel1]

Back out today with round HF coil.
Open field relic hunting.
This coil I really like for this kind of hunting.

Hunted in a site that has had loads of pressure put on with fbs/fbs2 units and Deus and LF coils.

Using this HF coil,,,IMO the thing to key on is know what iron and nail(s) sound like.
For example, notice how Deus like to give two grunts on a nail as it approaches (one grunt) and as it departs (second grunt),, if while sweeping this coil you hear just one grunt not long but the second grunt is missing yet you hear some thing else tone wise(might not sound pretty either),,,,put the BRAKES on.

What happens is a lot of times the HF coil will try to catch a crippled nonferous but can't give good high tone, rather a whaling of a tone,,iron grunt short depending on coil direction sweep may be there.

 

[Blank Planet]

thanks for all the info on the HF coils

BP

 

[CZconnoisseur]

Maybe another day.

Cheers[/quote]

Thank you again squirrel1 for the write-up!

So...the LF coil can't see the freshly-buried dime at 10"....well, I recently "lost" part of my test garden when we moved earlier this month, and only "found" it by digging a bunch of blind holes with a garden shovel LOL

I had a 9" deep nickel, Indian cent, and silver dime buried in a row, three feet apart....also had 3" deep and 6" deep identical coins. Also had an 11" deep Franklin half which was invisible since the day it got buried....but this is with the 11" coil too

So I'm putting in a new (shallower) coin garden at the new place, and the mineralization is worse than the old place - usually 6 or 7 "bars" on the scale. I will be interested to see how the 9" HF round coil sees coins differently than the larger, 11" LF coil.

Have dug a few 4-6" deep coins at the new place, and they sound much deeper audio-wise, unfortunately are only from the 1960s and 1970s - while the neighborhood dates back to the 1890s. Who knows? Maybe the HF coil is the way to go in these parts....but the 11" coil has definitely paid for itself this year so far....

 

[squirrel1]

Maybe another day.

Cheers

Thank you again squirrel1 for the write-up!

So...the LF coil can't see the freshly-buried dime at 10"....well, I recently "lost" part of my test garden when we moved earlier this month, and only "found" it by digging a bunch of blind holes with a garden shovel LOL

I had a 9" deep nickel, Indian cent, and silver dime buried in a row, three feet apart....also had 3" deep and 6" deep identical coins. Also had an 11" deep Franklin half which was invisible since the day it got buried....but this is with the 11" coil too

So I'm putting in a new (shallower) coin garden at the new place, and the mineralization is worse than the old place - usually 6 or 7 "bars" on the scale. I will be interested to see how the 9" HF round coil sees coins differently than the larger, 11" LF coil.

Have dug a few 4-6" deep coins at the new place, and they sound much deeper audio-wise, unfortunately are only from the 1960s and 1970s - while the neighborhood dates back to the 1890s. Who knows? Maybe the HF coil is the way to go in these parts....but the 11" coil has definitely paid for itself this year so far....[/quote]

In the higher mineral,,I suspect the 11 LF coil will have more iron sound to it on deeper targets vs the HF coil. If it will hit them.

Look forward to seeing your results if you go the HF coil route.

 

[KyJoe]

Good info on the HF coils. Recently loaded V4 in my Deus and it really woke it up. Along with a couple of Calabash's programs things are getting interesting again. My soil isn't hot but I may still pull the trigger on the HF Round. Kind of a different line of thinking higher frequencies to pull in deeper higher conductors vs LF. And possibly pull in more coins on edge. I don't clad hunt, mainly old homesites and most of my targets are lower conductors with a little silver here and there.

 

[JBM1]

I now have a 9" deus H/F coil and its just fine,. Jerry.

 

[JBM1]

Thanks Squirrel, for such a comprehensive write-up.

I must print it off and let it sink into my 83 year old grey matter.

So far (6 hours) iusing the H/F 9" round coil at 55kHz has given me most pleasure and finds.

Happy Hunting,

Jerry.