45 I.D. and clean sound= Iron

[idagon]

I was out at an old mining town yeaterday, and I must say this xterra was signaling a 45 many times or 42 many times, only to dig up pieces of iron sheeting, or washer size iron . And the signals were not dirty, they were crisp, clean, I just knew they were coins.

why is the ID so high, how am I going to tell the thousands of chunks of iron from coins?

Now most iron gave a dirty signal, but A LOT gave a good signal, and pinpointed dead on!

The machine ground balanced at around 16, the last time I had it out I had to GB around 2-3, (in a different area)seem weird to me to be so far of different GB numbers

My initial impressions have been drastically lowered

can anyone provide any help?

Is the gold coil (18.75) going to be as good as a gold bug 2 on gold?

 

[Digger]

I would be interested to know if you were hunting in all metal or one of the patterns with notches activated? I have found that when I hunt iron infested areas, in the all-metal mode, I will occassionally get a 45 signal. But, the response of an iron target is typically far wider than a half dollar or silver dollar provides. And, usually, if I slow down the sweep speed and pass over the target from a variety of directions, I can hear a mix of tones and the numeric display will not stay locked on. When doing this, a half dollar or silver dollar is the only US coin that I have found that provides a consistent target ID of 45. Same holds true with a 42. The only 42 I get when passing the coil over the target from a variety of directions is a US quarter. And once again, if it is a wider target target response than a quarter would provide, it will likely be a piece of iron trash that is simply overloading the circuit. Never say never, but I can usually tell the difference by listening for consistent tones and watching for consistent readings.

If you have difficulty in determining the width of a target in a motion mode, you might find it necessary to flip over to the non-motion pinpoint mode to help determine the size of the target. The tone and the volume are both modulated when using the pinpoint mode. An iron target should produce a much wider response than a single coin. If you find that the pinpoint mode is noisy, that is a good indication that you have either not ground balanced properly or your sensitivity is set too high for that site.

We all hate to do it, but you may want to lower the sensitivity and re-ground balance when hunting in (what sounds to me) a highly mineralized area. If all else fails, you can set the notch segment represented by 45 to reject and pass up the possibility of halves or silver dollars. HH Randy

 

[Rick(ND)]

I had seen a lot of nice lock ons for 45 on the 50 and 44 on the 30 only to see it was iron. I notice these read higher than a quarter would read at, so towards last I just passed them up if I got a 44 on the 30 or a 45 on the 50 as I was running the disc pattern. Now the last day I used the all metal mode and seen most of the 44 on the 30 would give a different tone of iron on the edge of these signals, this may be the answer to telling them and haven't been able to try out this more as our weather went bad right after that and cant get out.
I feel these are some great detectors, but like many of the better ones it takes some time out with them to see what they can do and tell the good from the bad.
The first day out with any detector is not what we expect and it don't do as good as we feel it should for IDing, but after you have used it a bit it seems to get better each time out.

Rick

 

[idagon]

Hmm, checking the width sounds like a viable alternative, Digger,
and who wants to notch out 45 signals.

also Rick you may have something there on the tone,(I hope)I will have to pay closer attention to see if 45 readings will give different tones.
Has anyone else noticed this?


I had to lower sensitivity to 10 in this area.
And I had to raise the GB to 16 to balance, which I thought was odd, as everywhere else where I live is around 2-5 GB.
Does this seem odd?

thanks for the replies

 

[steve herschbach]

Hi,

The VDI scale is not a line, it is a circle. Iron items on the low end can wrap around and read hi, especially sheets of steel or washers. I've never found a detector yet that will not chirp high on steel now and then.

The Fisher CZ's were prone to this when notching out iron. You would get an intermittant high tone that would sound like a coin. But if you leave all the segments open you find that you are getting mostly low tones, with a high chirp now and then. But if you notch iron out all you hear is high tones.

Same with the X-Terra. If you notch out low tones sometimes steel will chirp high. Open up the iron segments, and now you will get iron tones also on the target. Hit it at different speeds and angles, especially off center. You will never be able to get a low tone off a half dollar.

Quarters read 42. I will hunt with iron notched out when hunting at times, and will sometimes notch out 45 as frankly there are few halfs and dollars to be detected. You have to call the odds yourself on that one. One a White's XLT or DFX you can notch out 95 for the same reason.

Here is my "Steve's X-Terra 50 VDI Scale" -

45 = Large Iron
42 = Large Silver
39 = Silver
36 = Copper/Silver
33 = Copper
30 = Zinc
27 = Large Aluminum
24 = Large Gold
21 = Medium Large Gold
18 = Medium Aluminum
15 = Medium Gold
12 = Nickel
09 = Medium Small Gold
06 = Small Gold
03 = Small Aluminum
-3 = Small Iron
-6 = Medium Iron
-9 = Large Iron

Notice 45 and -9 are Large Iron. Imagine that -9 hooks back around to 45. It should be "Iron, Very Large Silver" but in most cases I think you will dig iron unless it is a solid 45 with no negatives showing.

Remember looking at this incredibly simplified scale that the metals seamlessly overlap. I tried to make this obvious when you look at the aluminum and gold readings. The actual odds of getting a certain type of target at any particular VDI number are determined by where you are hunting.

Bottom line in heavy junk is leave iron segments open and hunt by tones only. Notching iron out works better for coin hunting parks and schoolyards. And no matter what you do, you will get a washer now and then or a steel plate that will sound good, on any machine you try. Old mining areas are the worst. Sheared off bolt heads sing out nicely also.

See Monte's notes on "Quick Out" and "Edge Pass Rejection" at http://66.51.97.78/jb/idxtips.html

The 18.75 coil is not as good as a Gold Bug 2 on small gold. Nothing is. But it will give machines like the Garrett Gold Stinger a serious run for the money.

Steve Herschbach

 

[Digger]

As I have mentioned several times, I beleive that "consistency" is the key to hunting with the X-Terras. Consistency in target location. Consistency in audio response. And, consistency in numeric target ID.

Location: The target should be visualized in the exact same location, no matter which way you pass the coil over it. "X" over the target from several directions and make a mental note of where you believe the target to be buried. If it appears to not be in the same exact location with each pass, it is not likely a coin. If the location stays the same, check for audio consistency.

Audio response: When hunting in all-metal, let your ears help you distinguish targets. If your audio tone is not steady, has another tone interfering, makes a clucking sound or breaks up, it is not likely a coin. When you hear that consistent target tone, check for visual ID consistency.

Visual target ID: After checking for location consistency and audio consistency, pass the coil over the target from a variety of directions. If you get a number that locks on, (or moves no more than one notch in EITHER direction) it will likely be an accepted target within that notch segment. If the numeric display varies by MORE than one notch when you pass the coil back and forth over the target, it is likely a rejected target.

Let me give you a specific example of what I have experienced in my hunts with the X-Terra 50. While hunting in all metal, lets say that you get a medium high tone with a target ID of 33. Pass the coil over the suspected target making sure the response is coming from the exact same location. (make a mental note of where that location is by referencing a blade of grass, clump of dirt, leaf or some sort of landmark) If the location is consistent, continue passing the coil over it, listening for a change of tone. If you hear an infusion of another tone, it is likely junk. If the tone is solid, stable and steady, it may be a good target. To further verify the target, check the visual target ID. In this example, if the target ID remains locked on 33, or if it jumps to an occassional 36 OR down to a 27, it is likely a copper cent. HOWEVER, if it jumps both up to 36 and down to 27, it will likely be junk. I have not found a buried coin that has varied by more than one notch segment. That is not to say it won't happen. But over the past several months, I have dug several hundred coins and pieces of trash, and I have never found a coin with a visual ID that varied more than one notch in either direction. Targets varying by more than one notch in either direction or targets varying by one notch in both directions have all been trash.

Hope this helps. HH Randy

 

[dfwdetector]

Expanding a little the reason it is circular is TID numbers are derived from phase shifts. Phase shifts are then run through a formulat for the XLT's it is 55 times the tangent of the phase angle. So you do the math .... The tangent of 45 degrees is the same as the tanget of 225 degrees. If you work this with a calculator using the XLT fixed multiplier of 55 you will see how the negative valued items can actually read a good POSTIVE ID number.

I will have my Xterra by next Friday and I should be able to come up with the fixed value it uses as well.

HH

dfwdetector

 

[Jackpine Savage]

Hi,

Steve made reference to iron bolts in his post, which was excellent by the way, and I'm wondering if the 50 hits on those as well. Round washers are a big problem for detectors but there are some machines that can ignore the large iron nuts and bolts better than others. One area of a ghost town I hunt has those in abundance and relic machines for the most part are useless around that kind of iron. How does the Exterra do on that type of target?

Tom

 

[idagon]

OK now this has helped tremendously, thanks for the info.Steve and Digger

I wish they would put this stuff in the manual.