25 good reasons to use a smaller coil

[JimmyCT]

I ventured off to the 1893 carnival grounds that I have graced several times over this past summer. I found two wheats at the beginning of the season and tons of clad with my stock 10" coil.(way out in th middle of the field where there were less signals and trash) Today was a day of testing the Tornado 800 and boy did it produce! I never did get that far but probably a 12x12 area was my 4 hour hunt. I have hit this area with the 10" but the ground is all garbaged up with iron, foil, tabs, just plain junk. I was discouraged with the 10" tornado at this site as it was picking up multiple signals and it drove me nuts. I couldn't "zero in" on anything as the garbage in the ground is horrendous. I figured if I ever had the chance to try out a smaller coil - this would most certainly be the place to test it out.

So about 15 feet away from my car I hit an iffy one way high pitched signal.... this started my 4 hour hunt in an area no bigger than 12' x 12' Out came a wheat cent. I slowly moved around and really focused on the more solid signals within the junk...another wheat, then another, then another...I started saying to myself, self, " I am surprised there is no silver coming up" shortly after stating this, I found my first roosevelt dime! Most of the signals today were one way high pitched / 180 signals. The key today was going xtra turtle slow, LOTS OF PATIENTS and cross hatching this little area. I saved some of the junk to give an idea of what was mixed in with the coins.This little coil is worth every cent. ( This tornado 800 is being loaned to me and truly appreciate the chance to use this little bugger) if the owner ever wants to sell it.....I would be more then happy to purchase

This coil really makes a HUGE difference in picking out the coins amongst heavy iron and trash. My 10" tornado just couldn't seperate the targets in this very same area.

I hardly even made a dent in this field. 4 hours in a 12 x 12 area but it shows what can be found in dense trash if one takes the time ( I sure did that today )

ultimately 3 silver dimes1953 1952 &1947 (what else would I find lol) (not complaining by any means) dimeman lives on lol

1 - religious medal - Our Father who art in heaven...

21 wheat cents 1- 1920 the rest are in the 1940's & 50's

This why I state there are 25 good reasons for using a smaller coil. I know with the amount of iron junk in this area, my 10" coil would of walked right over them again.

Thanks for looking and if you have been contemplating a smaller coil for extreme trash.... this little tornado 800 will do the job! I give it an A+ for seperating signals so close together and very good depth. The majority of these coins were right around 6-7 inches. I kept the sensitivity at 3pm (seemed to work best for me)(in AUTO some of the coins I couldn't pick up too well) Going up around noon was horrible (just broke the signals up too much and the same around the first C in cancel. Once I got down around 3pm - the signals smoothed out and weren't as jumpy / breaking signals. )





.

 

[fwcrawford]

Looks like a very productive day for you!!
That little coil is a great coil.. I have one for my Musketeer and have done well with in iron littered home sites.
If you keep coming up with great finds like these, I may have to invest in the 8" coil for my Sovereign!!!
Keep up the great posts,
Felix

 

[GunnarMN]

Jim I am amazed that you got that much stuff out of a 12x12 erea MAN"" as far as the coil i found the same thing it works best at a lower sensitivity. but i found that with the 10" as well just about 3:00 and it really works nice I share your frustration on the quarters but you will find some and probly three in a hole its going to be a great day , Cool prayor medalion yes we know our foather is in heaven , he would not like whats going on down hear but his son is coming to clean things up , and who can endure the day of the LORD,

 

[Ron from Michigan]

Jim,great finds a very good day,the 800 Tornado coil is my favorite coil very smooth stable,great depth and separates very well forgot to mention light. HH Ron

 

[rarysgaard]

Now try a 6" coil and you will get even better results. I bought an excelerator 6" coil for my e-trac & it has made a major difference in the quantity & quality of my finds. I have found so many more rings ,which is what I hunt for.It is deep and the seperation is great.

 

[plugger]

n/t

 

[JimmyCT]

Thanks plugger! I have to say even for its true size of 7 1/4" this coil really snakes in between trash. Although I am sure the 5" coil would have really helped even more in this situation. I am real happy with it and even happier knowing the owner just sold it to me! HH - Jim

n/t

 

[Critterhunter]

Now try a 6" coil and you will get even better results. I bought an excelerator 6" coil for my e-trac & it has made a major difference in the quantity & quality of my finds. I have found so many more rings ,which is what I hunt for.It is deep and the separation is great.

The 6" Excelerator seems to be a leading favorite among the FBS units for excellent depth and outstanding separation, but also it's cheaper than the Minelab 8" FBS coil (same size as the 8" Tornado at 7.25"), so I suspect that's reason alone for the 6" Excelerators popularity. I hear Kellyco did indeed carry a 6" Excelerator for the BBS units up until a couple years ago. Not sure if Detech continues to make it for others or if it was a Kellyco exclusive order for the BBS version. Never have heard of anybody using one on the BBS units to report on it's performance, but what little I've heard of the 5" Excelerator doesn't appear to sound too outstanding depth wise and such. Same deal on the FBS units. Most seem to opt for the 6" size on those over the 5" I think.

Try the Sun Ray S-5 (5" Coil) and I think you will find even more goodies! Nice job with the 8" though!

I have used the S-5 (5.5") Sun Ray in the field some and has my suspicions on a few things that I wanted to see by eye via some staged air testing. As I suspected, it at least *appears* to me that it's not getting nearly as good of left/right separation as all the other coils I tested it against, which were much larger coils to boot. Also, it didn't seem to handle the mineralized brick test nearly as well as the other coils either.

That's the very reason why I have a 8" Tornado on lay away with Chuck at Indian Nation Detectors, as I wasn't happy at all with what I saw in my personal testing. I thought something might be going on, as I worked that coil extensively in heavy trash where I know oldies lurk, and at shallow depths due to the hard ground and the presence of so much old "silver age" trash being present, as I've pulled keepers out of that site before with various coils.

Despite all the intense working that stuff with the S-5, I only managed one rosie. It was though about 7 to 7.5" deep and banged hard, so I was impressed with the depth of the S-5, because all my prior non-Minelab machines even using a much larger coil could just barely manage 7 to 7.5" deep on a silver dime in this mineralized soil. And, there is no doubt the S-5 will have the advantage in terms of length wise separation.

In terms of left/right separation the 12x10 is laser like and so impressive that I have little worry as to missing stuff that way. The 10" Tornado is no slouch either but seems a bit more "effort" is required to slice and dice width wise with two targets, but just the same the 10" Tornado is the best stock coil I ever owned in terms of left/right separation, depth, and stability...It's just that the 12x10 steps all these aspects of performance including left/right separation up a notch IMO.

But, the 10" Tornado is so good at the left/right thing, that I'm counting on the 8" Tornado being very good as well width wise like that, and being only 7.25" in size it's for sure going to outshine standard 8 or 9" regular or even considered "trash" coils on most detectors. That 3/4ths of an inch smaller size can make all the difference in unmasking stuff tip to tail of the coil, when a trash item is forward and aft of the coil. And, being that the 8 inch tornado is said to get outstanding depth (better than the S-8, Coinsearch, and old heavy BBS coil...at least *some say*), I'm very excited about the prospects of this coil to unmask length wise, but I suspect it should be no slouch width wise at separation as well like others have said in reference to it compared to other coils they used in it's size range.

Combine all the above with the stellar depth reports of it, far beyond that of even larger coils I owned on all my non-Minelabs, and I can't wait to run it through my usual obstacle courses of nail masking and mineralized bricks to see how it does, and will post the video when done as I have for other coils so they can be contrasted in performance.

I have a few other staged masking tests planned that I think might show the potential of this coil as well, in terms of front/back masking, but combined with width wise masking, to really put it through the wringer, and will do the same test in the video with larger coils. The 12x10 I bet might even out-do it width wise in unmasking, but in terms of length wise the 8" Tornado might be a lethal combination that can't be beat.

If I grid from several directions with the 12x10 to overcome length wise aspects of masking, I doubt there is little left to find, but if there is a combination of foreword/aft and left/right masking that encircles a target in say an eight inch "ring" somewhat around the coin...When that happens only something smaller than 8" is going to see it, and even then too small of a coil (like say a 5 or 6") might not be big enough to have the depth to see a deep coin in the midst of all that trash. That's where I think the 8 inch Tornado might really pop some keepers at "dead" heavily trashy sites, and I can't wait to see what this little coil will do at some of my heavily laden iron or trash sites for that reason.

Here's the video I did testing various nail masking respects to a dime, one being the elevated nail masking test that seems popular on you tube videos among detectorists. The video also contains the stacked mineralized brick test...

http://youtu.be/bKesj7KjcXY

 

[BHNugget]

Interesting video critterhunter. On the brick test with the S-5, I thought I could hear a response with it, (although not as pronounced as with the other coils), before you removed the second brick?

 

[Critterhunter]

If memory serves I got zero response with two bricks, and only a much weaker one with one brick left with it, while the others banged hard through 2 bricks. It's not a height issue either. The S-5 air tests at I think 8.5" (see that on one of the other videos on my channel). The left/right separation, I had my suspicions with doing field hunts, and the air testing at least appears to confirm what I thought was going on. In air testing at least, but it supports my feelings of what I suspected in the field. Excellent length wise separation though and good depth with it.

 

[Maxwedge]

GREAT FINDS JIM. LOOKS LIKE YOU WILL CLEAN UP. I LOVED MY 8 IN. COINSEARCH BEFORE IT WENT CRAZY. I STILL LOVE MY S-5 AND IT SEEMS TO DO GOOD HERE EVEN WITH THE SENSITIVITY TURNED WAY UP. HOPE YOU FIND A LOT MORE. HH-MARK

 

[xwyokid]

Those small coils are the cat's meow! I thought about the S-5 but I figured I wouldn't have the patience with it so I got the 8" Tornado. Just right for me. My brother, for years has been trying to instill in me the great benefits of a smaller coil. Guess some skulls are thicker than others!!

 

[Critterhunter]

Interesting video critterhunter. On the brick test with the S-5, I thought I could hear a response with it, (although not as pronounced as with the other coils), before you removed the second brick?

This might clear up any potential confusion, but please keep in my that video was air testing alone, and the *apperance* of things might be completely different in how coils perform in the ground, but my air tests of various coils do tend to support any suspicions I had in the field and how they were performing, but just the same that is not a statement and I don't claim otherwise. Things might be very different for others or in actual ground conditions. I just found it helpful to see by eye what my vague impressions were in the field to investigate further, but that still doesn't mean it's reality for others, or in fact for me either, when it comes to actual in ground conditions.

Each coil starts with 3 mineralized bricks (old ones, as some modern red bricks don't seen mineralized or at least nearly as mineralized as old ones like these). None of the coils could see through 3 bricks they all start with, so then I kicked off the top one and then tried two. All the coils could see through 2 but I don't think the S-5 did (can't watch it right now to refresh my memory), so then I kicked off brick #2 for it and if I remember right it was then getting somewhat of a response, but not as strong as 2 bricks with the other coils. The bottom brick is half a brick in size, so you can't see it I don't think in the video, until I kick off brick #2 for the S-5. If I could watch it right now I'd be more precise about things but am using a computer at the moment that is having issues with streaming video, so I don't want to risk looking again.

The S-5 has excellent depth (8.5" if I remember right) in the one video I did air testing coils. All of them ran at full sensitivity due to it being a low EMI environment, and yes I know air testing on Minelabs is highly controversial, because of the unique way they handle (and thus need) a ground load. But just the same the S-5 got great depth. Much more than I suspected it would, and in the field I did dig one silver Rosie about 7 to 7.5" deep with it that banged so hard and ID'd so easily, that I'm confident it could have perhaps been maybe another 2" deep and I still would have got a perfect ID.

That might not sound like much in some people's soils, but in my mineralized soils only the two best non-Minelabs I've owned out of many machines over the years, could just barely ID a silver dime at about 7.5" deep. The fact that the S-5 did, compared to say 8 to 10" coils on other machines I've owned, is very impressive to me.

The S-5, due to it's tiny 5.5" size, there is not doubt outshines anything larger in pure length wise separation. That alone can mean the difference between getting skunked or going home with keepers.

For the above two reasons, and it's quality construction, the S-5 is one quality coil with great potential in certain situations. Along fences alone could mean big succes, which by the way I'm looking forward to trying the 7.25" Tornado along some fences at old sites as well.

That's one of the reasons why I'm so excited about the potential of the 7.25" Tornado. I think of it this way- It's probably (from what I've read from others) going to punch much deeper than 8 to 10" coils I've used on my non-Minelabs in my soil, and yet should also out shine them in length wise separation and probably width wise as well (at least compared to a concentric coil in that respect of width wise).

Most people tend to stick with a stock coil on their Minelab FBS or BBS units, just like most people do with other detectors, which means a 10 or 11" stock coil in the case of a Minelab. Punching deeper than at least many other machines in my soil with a 7.25" coil on a Minelab, combined with better separation, is what excites me the most about the potential of this little coil.

All speculation of course until I have the one on lay away in my hands and use it in the field, but based on threads I've dug up on it I'm betting this is going to be the case, and greatly look forward to using it at highly trashed sites that contain tons of iron or other trash. I have so many in mind right now that I don't even know where to begin. The stock 10" Tornado has excellent left/right seperation and has pulled me coins that were right up against trash, and the 12x10 has done even more in that respect for me, but my hope is that good left/right seperation combined with better length wise of the 8" Tornado, might be a lethal combination that turns me up more keepers at sites others have long since given up on.

 

[JimmyCT]

Hey Critter nice report on the S-5. Sounds like a dynamite little coil. The 8" tornado is an "eye opener" coil. I thought all I needed was the 10" tornado and swore by it. When I went back over this little area at the carnival lot (which has sinced been closed to metal detectors due to one moron digging holes with a shovel, not covering them and fighting with town officials... ) I was shocked at what I walked over with the 10" coil. The 10" coil nulled out to much due to the massive amounts of iron junk. When I strapped on the smaller tornado it made the area come alive and thus the above results in this post. Someday I would like to try out the sunray 5". There are a few heavily "garbage ground" places I would like to try it out at. One other thing that is key with any coil is to "cross hatch" the area and turn to create different angles as this contributed to "opening up" the area for more finds. I spent many hours (approx 20 hours) just in this one little spot of the carnival field and was amazed at what kept on coming out. Maxwedge - Thanks for the comments.

One last comment about the 8" Tornado - I made a coin garden in my back yard and planted a silver dime at a measured 10" (lying flat at the bottom of the hole) That was approx 8 months ago. I was totally blown away when I was able to get a good hit / 180 on the meter with the 8" tornado coil. The sensitivity was dialed in at approx 1pm. Any less then this it would not pick up the dime. Overall, this 8" tornado (actual 7 1/4") is a super coil that will "open up" those old warn out detecting spots. At a park near my home I hunted the entrance to the park a gazillion times with many detectors over the years(as well as many others) and with the Sov GT with the 10". I figured there couldn't be a clad coin left. This past summer I surprised myself with a buffalo nickel and a couple of silver mercs along with a several bucks in clad. The 8" tornado is now my main coil. I wish everyone a prosperous detecting year! - Jim

 

[Critterhunter]

One last comment about the 8" Tornado - I made a coin garden in my back yard and planted a silver dime at a measured 10" (lying flat at the bottom of the hole) That was approx 8 months ago. I was totally blown away when I was able to get a good hit / 180 on the meter with the 8" tornado coil. The sensitivity was dialed in at approx 1pm. Any less then this it would not pick up the dime. Overall, this 8" tornado (actual 7 1/4") is a super coil that will "open up" those old warn out detecting spots. At a park near my home I hunted the entrance to the park a gazillion times with many detectors over the years(as well as many others) and with the Sov GT with the 10". I figured there couldn't be a clad coin left. This past summer I surprised myself with a buffalo nickel and a couple of silver mercs along with a several bucks in clad. The 8" tornado is now my main coil. I wish everyone a prosperous detecting year! - Jim

10" on a silver dime with a 7.25" coil is nothing to sneeze at! Of course a lot depends on the type of minerals we all have as to just how deep certain coils or machines will get. Only two of the best non-Minelab machines I ever owned or used could just hardly muster about 7.5" in my mineralized soil, and that's even using coils in the 9 to 10" or so range. So yea... Main reason I'm thrilled about the possibilities of this coil is more depth than typical machines (in my soil) using much larger coils, and yet with far better length wise separation compared to larger DDs, and also I expect it should also have far better width wise separation than at least concentrics, if not some other DDs as well.

Can't wait to run it through a few tests in staged forward/aft and left/right separation against my other coils. The perfect storm of masking in terms of a "ring" of trash around a coin at say 8" in diameter masking it to all angles of approach (due to the length wise aspect of masking) with any coil 8" or larger. Besides, by my way of thinking, even among most Minelab guys (FBS or BBS), just like other detector users, most people seem to stick with the stock coil and don't use other sizes...Which means a 10 or 11" coil on the BBS of FBS units, unless they are using a prior Sovereign model that came with say the old 8" Coinsearch coil stock. The thought of getting Minelab depth in my soil, yet with a smaller-than-is-the-norm coil that most machines use, should at least pop me some keepers for both reasons- either masking or the depth of the coin being beyond a smaller trash coil's abilities.

If the 8" Tornado is anything like the 10" Tornado in terms of width wise separation, then I won't be let down in that respect. In terms of stock coils, the 10" Tornado is the best coil I ever used on a machine, concentric or DD, in all respects (stability, depth, separation, etc). Nothing like my 10" Explorer coils. I've dug coins right up against junk with the 10" Tornado. It'll do that if you work it properly, like any coil should be worked properly, but the 12x10 makes that width wise aspect of separation a bit more easy and more distinct without as much effort at slicing and dicing targets apart, and also (for me) improves stability in EMI or minerals and depth over the already outstanding abilities of the 10" Tornado in that respect.

 

[JimmyCT]

You will be well pleased with the separation abilities of the 8" Tornado. I do not want to sound redundant but go to a well known hunting area that you feel has not much left to offer and let the 8" coil loose. As far as the test in my coin garden: I was truly amazed with the fact that the dime was only buried 8 months @ 10" deep and the 8" tornado hit very nicely on the dime. I thought for sure the coin would not be detected as it is known that BBS and FBS machines hate disturbed ground. So the short time factor surprised me as well. Spring will be here before we know it and then we will be able to get out and have some fun in the dirt

In terms of stock coils, the 10" Tornado is the best coil I ever used on a machine, concentric or DD, in all respects (stability, depth, separation, etc)

 

[Critterhunter]

Can you remark further about where I saw in one of your field reports with it that you found a lower sensitivity setting seemed to work better for you in the trash? I can see that being a possibility, as lowering it would possibly help it to ignore deeper iron or other junk off to the sides and thus not be being bounced around as it moved and saw the coin between them. At 1PM 10" on a silver dime is pretty outstanding for such a tiny coil. In my air tests of the S-5 running full manual sensitivity it got 8.5" on a dime, which ain't bad for such a hockey puck. And, I did dig one Rosie around 7 to 7.5" deep in bad ground that banged so hard and IDed so well that I think it probably could have been another 2 inches at least and I would have saw it. Supports the notion that Minelabs see deeper in some soils or sands due to the unique way they handle (and thus need) a ground signal, where as it's typical for other detectors using conventional ground balance to air test much deeper than they'll do in the ground.

If that 8" Tornado can run at higher sensitivity settings at your coin garden, I'd be real interested to hear if it gets even better depth, or if you find the ID degrades running it higher. This can happen with coils in some grounds, although I have yet to see it happen on my GT, where as with prior machines I did find that to be the case, and also found sometimes a smaller coil would ID better at depth than a larger one. Only time I've seen this on the GT is with the 15x12. It seemed to ID better at about 1/3rd down from max stable sensitivity at some sites. For instance, say it was stable at 9PM...I'd find that around 2pm, or pointing at the "C" in noise cancel, gave me better ID and tone at depth for it. I think it was just too big of a coil, beyond the point of no return in terms of depth gains on coin/ring sized targets, to where I needed to lower the sensitivity to stop it from soaking up too much ground stew and washing away a deep target's qualities. It never did seem to get the depth of the stock 10" coil on land, but in the sand (which is mineralized too) I did find it got deeper than stock, and also that I could run it at full blast stable sensitivity. I suspect in my soil about a 12 or 13" size coil is max size I can go to still see depth gains on coin/ring sized targets. Typical that concentrics ride on and see more ground than DDs, and also often said concentrics lose sensitivity to coin sized targets as they get past about 10 to 10.5" in size, where as a DD rule of thumb I always heard was about 14" or so for max size to still gain depths on coin sized stuff. But, the ground minerals are the limiting factor. Even with a DD riding on and seeing less ground, and even with retaining small target sensitivity, there comes a point when the coil size is overwhelming the target at depth due to the ground being seen. That's why I think the 15x12 often seemed to get more depth by lowering sensitivity.

Either way, curious to hear why you felt the 8" Tornado ran better in the trash with lower sensitivity. Probably not a ground matrix issue, but rather making it less sensitive to all the junk as it looked for coins among it. By lowering it it'd be getting pushed around less by the junk at depth and such, and so not having to lag while reseting to be ready to see the coin mixed in there.

 

[JimmyCT]

Hey critter,
Yes I do remember writing on lower sensitivity however I can not locate the article From memory - there was so much garbage turning the sensitivity down acutally helped me isolate good targets. I remember turning up the sensitivity and more nulling took place and I could not get a "good reading" on targets. This just happened to me this past summer too. I remember adjusting my sensitivity around 1pm for the hunt. I then came into a patch of iron and started nulling out BUT also I heard intermittent good target sounds mixed in. I almost gave up but instead lowered my sensitivity as low as possible. I went back over the area (no bigger then 2 feet in diameter) and picked up a nice one way high pitched / 180 signal. I pinpointed the best I could and dug. For my efforts and persistence I found a wheat cent. I suppose this is where one could inject the "highbeam" theory. Too much sensitivity saw a much bigger picture and pulled more into it. Turning off the highbeam (turning sensitivity as low as it will go) I developed a "Pen flashlight" and thus able to see that one lonely wheat cent sitting in the iron.

When I detected the dime at 10" with the 8" tornado I fooled around with the sensitivity at the 12 noon position (with no difference) but when turned the sensitivity between 8am - 10am it was maybe even closer to 11am setting that I started to receive broken signals. So sufferage in ID started around the 11am mark. It was that point of "seeing" too much in the ground as everything became choppy and unclear. I suppose if the ground was completely clean of iron junk the results would of been different.

That S5 is quite impressive hitting on a dime at 8.5 inches! I look forward taking this little S5 coil to the farm property I hunt. Imagine someone taking billions of nails, bits of scrap iron, etc and blanketing 20th of an acre with pure iron garbage That is what I have to face on one part of the property where most of the coins are. So the S5 will be put to the test this Spring.

Can you remark further about where I saw in one of your field reports with it that you found a lower sensitivity setting seemed to work better for you in the trash? I can see that being a possibility, as lowering it would possibly help it to ignore deeper iron or other junk off to the sides and thus not be being bounced around as it moved and saw the coin between them. At 1PM 10" on a silver dime is pretty outstanding for such a tiny coil. In my air tests of the S-5 running full manual sensitivity it got 8.5" on a dime, which ain't bad for such a hockey puck. And, I did dig one Rosie around 7 to 7.5" deep in bad ground that banged so hard and IDed so well that I think it probably could have been another 2 inches at least and I would have saw it. Supports the notion that Minelabs see deeper in some soils or sands due to the unique way they handle (and thus need) a ground signal, where as it's typical for other detectors using conventional ground balance to air test much deeper than they'll do in the ground.

If that 8" Tornado can run at higher sensitivity settings at your coin garden, I'd be real interested to hear if it gets even better depth, or if you find the ID degrades running it higher. Either way, curious to hear why you felt the 8" Tornado ran better in the trash with lower sensitivity. Probably not a ground matrix issue, but rather making it less sensitive to all the junk as it looked for coins among it. By lowering it it'd be getting pushed around less by the junk at depth and such, and so not having to lag while reseting to be ready to see the coin mixed in there.

 

[Critterhunter]

I'm real anxious to hear your opinion of the S-5 versus the 7.25" Tornado. Please chime in with some more field reports like the excellent ones you did in the past with the Tornado. In particular, I'm curious how you find the S-5's left/right separation to the Tornado. At least in what I suspected in the field and my you tube staged testing seemed to support, that was a deal killer for me on the S-5. But in terms of length wise, that little coil will for sure find some stuff that a larger coil won't in certain situations, unless you re-grid from several angles with a larger coil to overcome length wise masking aspects along the DD line. The 12x10 is so sharp of a DD line that if I grid a site from say 4 angles (think a "+" sign and then a "X" in grid angles to cover all possible angles) that I doubt much is left to be found, but if a coin has a "ring" of trash pretty much all the way around it then yea, a smaller coil to fit inside that ring of trash is going to be the answer, unless you hit that coin with a larger coil at just the right tight angle to miss the trash and still see the coin.

Thanks for the info on the sensitivity thing. For sure that is going to involve me doing some test comparisons with various sensitivity before digging a badly masked coin, and I think I'll play with that on some badly masked staged tests and do a video on it to see if I can see any particulars about it. Sounds to me though like more of a masking issue with the lower sensitivity working than a ground matrix. Did see ground matrix come into play with the 15x12 in terms of a lower sensitivity giving better target ID at depth. It was much harder to stabilize and work up the ID and tone with a high sensitivity at the edge of stability, even if the 15x12 was running stable. But in terms of the 8" Tornado thing I'm thinking ground matrix probably wasn't the issue due to it's small size, and was probably due to the amount of "fluff" tiny target signals mixed in near the coin that might be bumping the coil around with too high a setting?

Thanks again for the info, and be sure to do some field reports with that S-5, as well as the 8" Tornado some more. I'd be real interested to hear you work a heavy trash spot small marked out area gridding with the Tornado, and then hunting it with the S-5 at the same angle(s) of attack and see if it finds more. Even better, then switch turns as to which goes first...Work a small marked trash laden spot with the S-5 first, and then see if the 8" Tornado finds more. Doing both might illistrate conditions of particular masking where one coil shines over the other, and I bet for the S-5 it'll be that ring of trash thing in almost a complete circle around it, at say a diameter of about 6 inches or so. Know what I mean? It'd be interesting to see if you happen across coins masked by an 8" or so ring of trash that the S-5 couldn't see due to the depth of the coin, but the Tornado could, as well.