?

[Rolladex]

If the CTX 3030 can see multiple targets why do you need a small coil, just wandering? I can see the big coil to cover more ground and a little more depth.

 

[Guvner]

n/t

 

[Yeasty]

A reasonable question.
I plan to use the 6" coil in tight places like wooded areas. I find my 8" coil on my ETrac very effective in places like that.

 

[earthmansurfer]

A couple of things that come to mind:

1 - There is probably a reasonable limit of how many targets you can clearly see under the coil at one time. My guess is 3ish. I wouldn't depend on this feature in higher trash areas. It seems a compliment to hunting, not an overall answer.
2 - We are talking about VLF FBS tech limits regarding coil size, basically. A smaller coil will just be able to separate better in higher trash areas. Masking will still occur with the stock coil, perhaps just less of it.

Albert

 

[Digger]

A couple of things that come to mind:

1 - There is probably a reasonable limit of how many targets you can clearly see under the coil at one time. My guess is 3ish. I wouldn't depend on this feature in higher trash areas. It seems a compliment to hunting, not an overall answer.
2 - We are talking about VLF FBS tech limits regarding coil size, basically. A smaller coil will just be able to separate better in higher trash areas. Masking will still occur with the stock coil, perhaps just less of it.

1. I've not found a limit to the number of targets that the coil can "see" at one time. As some who have used the CTX 3030 have discovered, "seeing" four, ,five or even six targets at one time is within the scope of the CTX 3030. Obviously, multiple targets of the same FE/CO number will "stack" on the trace display. Others will provide an independent trail.

2. We are not talking VLF technology. As stated many times, this is FBS2, with a far greater range of frequencies than typically included in the Very Low Frequency range. I agree that a smaller coil does separate better than a larger coil. Most people consider target separation as a left - to -right issue. But targets can be adjacent in any direction. Although either coil will "see" all the targets under it (simultaneously), having a smaller coil allows you to see fewer targets at one time, providing a better opportunity to isolate each individual target in an effort to determine a more precise identification and location. JMHO HH Randy

 

[Rolladex]

I don't understand your reply. Please re frame.

 

[Reeseb]

What EMS and Randy said - and with a smaller coil seeing fewer targets you will get better target ID because you have less targets affecting the target ID. Less masking and smearing, in general.

 

[Guvner]

n/t

 

[TheMarshall]

If the CTX 3030 can see multiple targets why do you need a small coil, just wandering? I can see the big coil to cover more ground and a little more depth.

""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""​

Is there room for some confusion here?

Just because the CTX 3030 displays two targets on the screen DOES IT NECESSARILY mean both targets were under the coil AT THE SAME TIME?

Can the unit display a sort of sweep path 'histogram'?

i.e. Two targets, spaced apart at a distance wider than the search-head's diameter, being sensed sequentially rather than 'almost' co-incidentally......Any thoughts?



I don't have a CTX3030 yet, so can't do any testing myself......Maybe someone will variously space two targets and report their findings.???.......Matt.

 

[SwampeR]

Not an expert here and not nearly enough hours on the machine but I've been waiting for someone to post on this exact topic, do we see a target history or are we actually seeing actuall targets under the coil?

 

[Gemini13]

Not an expert here and not nearly enough hours on the machine but I've been waiting for someone to post on this exact topic, do we see a target history or are we actually seeing actuall targets under the coil?

Is the result not the same though? I mean aren't we splitting hairs here?

 

[Larry (IL)]

If you are looking at the screen on the first pass, you are seeing real time. If you wait until your swing is done, you could call it history I suppose. I don't see any difference really.

 

[Digger]

Is there room for some confusion here?
Just because the CTX 3030 displays two targets on the screen DOES IT NECESSARILY mean both targets were under the coil AT THE SAME TIME?
Can the unit display a sort of sweep path 'histogram'?
i.e. Two targets, spaced apart at a distance wider than the search-head's diameter, being sensed sequentially rather than 'almost' co-incidentally......Any thoughts?
I don't have a CTX3030 yet, so can't do any testing myself......Maybe someone will variously space two targets and report their findings.???.......Matt.

Had you taken the time to review the many posts concerning this matter, you'd have found we've been down this road many times. The question you pose leaves room for confusion, in and of itself. If your question is "does it necessarliy mean both targets were under the coil AT THE SAME TIME", the answer is YES. The CTX 3030 will identify multiple targets, simultaneously. But then the question becomes, " can the unit display a sort of sweep path histogram". Again, the answer is again, YES.

In previous posts, I've provided pictures that demonstrated identifying two coins under the coil simultaneously. In this picture, it is a penny and a nickel, .

[attachment 234865 nickelabovepenny.JPG] [attachment 234864 pennytonickel.JPG]

But when I posted this pic, I was asked the next in a series of comments and/or questions....... the nickel appears to have been under the center of the coil "ahead" of the penny. Answer----That is correct. And that will always be the case when you are passing the coil across two different sized coins. The coin with the larger diameter will either "get there" ahead of the smaller diameter coin, or it will "leave" the detection field later (again, due to the larger diameter).

So then I was asked, what if the targets are identical, such as two dimes? If the coil passes over two dimes at the same exact moment in time, you will get one target trace image. But the reason you only get one target trace image is not because the coil is only seeing one target. It is because the FE / CO components are exactly the same. If both dimes are 12/44, then the target images will BOTH be represented at ferrous line 12, conductive line 44. And even though you will only see what appears to be one image, it is both. Then I was asked, how can you prove it was both images? Well, I removed one of the dimes and the image was identical to the image provided when the two dimes were under the center of the coil at the same time. Then I put the first dime back "in place" and removed the other dime. Lo and behold, the image this time was exactly as it was with the other dime being there "alone". And it was identical to the image when both dimes were under the center of the coil at the same time.

So then the question became,what if you had more than two targets under the coil at the same time? And I posted this picture of a dime, a quarter, a nail and a 12 ga shotgun shell casing.....

[attachment 234868 4mixedtargets.JPG]

and as you can see, they will all pass under the coil at the same time. And here is the screen shot of those targets.....

[attachment 234866 screenshotmultipletargets.JPG]

And as you can see, all four targets provided target trace images. As to the target placement.........again, it is physically impossible to have a dime, a quarter, a nail and a 12 ga shotgun shell casing"enter" and "exit" the center of the coil at the same time because of the difference in diameters.

the question then became, what if an iron target and a coin were "stacked"? So I posted this picture.....
[attachment 234869 nailonquarter.JPG]

And took a screen shot as the coil passed over them....
[attachment 234870 screenshotnailonquarter.JPG]

You can clearly see the image left by both targets, in their proper FE/CO coordinate range.

The list of possible targets is never ending. The CTX 3030 will identify multiple targets under the coil, simultaneously. If one considers the center "bar" of the DD coil to be the only area considered to be "the detection field of the coil", then the different diameters of unequal targets will not allow that to happen. If they were equal targets, their images will overlap each other on the display.

If you have further questions regarding this matter, I'd encourage you to read the previous posts, as it has been thoroughly discussed. HH Randy

 

[Larry (IL)]

To answer your other question of why the smaller coil? It is the same for having a small coil on any detector, separation. If you are hunting in a place that has a lot of targets under the coil, you will quickly tire of hearing and looking at them on the screen. A small coil will help isolate the multiple targets for a better ID.

 

[Reeseb]

Is there room for some confusion here?
Just because the CTX 3030 displays two targets on the screen DOES IT NECESSARILY mean both targets were under the coil AT THE SAME TIME?
Can the unit display a sort of sweep path 'histogram'?
i.e. Two targets, spaced apart at a distance wider than the search-head's diameter, being sensed sequentially rather than 'almost' co-incidentally......Any thoughts?
I don't have a CTX3030 yet, so can't do any testing myself......Maybe someone will variously space two targets and report their findings.???.......Matt.

Had you taken the time to review the many posts concerning this matter, you'd have found we've been down this road many times. The question you pose leaves room for confusion, in and of itself. If your question is "does it necessarliy mean both targets were under the coil AT THE SAME TIME", the answer is YES. The CTX 3030 will identify multiple targets, simultaneously. But then the question becomes, " can the unit display a sort of sweep path histogram". Again, the answer is again, YES.

In previous posts, I've provided pictures that demonstrated identifying two coins under the coil simultaneously. In this picture, it is a penny and a nickel, .

[attachment 234865 nickelabovepenny.JPG] [attachment 234864 pennytonickel.JPG]

But when I posted this pic, I was asked the next in a series of comments and/or questions....... the nickel appears to have been under the center of the coil "ahead" of the penny. Answer----That is correct. And that will always be the case when you are passing the coil across two different sized coins. The coin with the larger diameter will either "get there" ahead of the smaller diameter coin, or it will "leave" the detection field later (again, due to the larger diameter).

So then I was asked, what if the targets are identical, such as two dimes? If the coil passes over two dimes at the same exact moment in time, you will get one target trace image. But the reason you only get one target trace image is not because the coil is only seeing one target. It is because the FE / CO components are exactly the same. If both dimes are 12/44, then the target images will BOTH be represented at ferrous line 12, conductive line 44. And even though you will only see what appears to be one image, it is both. Then I was asked, how can you prove it was both images? Well, I removed one of the dimes and the image was identical to the image provided when the two dimes were under the center of the coil at the same time. Then I put the first dime back "in place" and removed the other dime. Lo and behold, the image this time was exactly as it was with the other dime being there "alone". And it was identical to the image when both dimes were under the center of the coil at the same time.

So then the question became,what if you had more than two targets under the coil at the same time? And I posted this picture of a dime, a quarter, a nail and a 12 ga shotgun shell casing.....

[attachment 234868 4mixedtargets.JPG]

and as you can see, they will all pass under the coil at the same time. And here is the screen shot of those targets.....

[attachment 234866 screenshotmultipletargets.JPG]

And as you can see, all four targets provided target trace images. As to the target placement.........again, it is physically impossible to have a dime, a quarter, a nail and a 12 ga shotgun shell casing"enter" and "exit" the center of the coil at the same time because of the difference in diameters.

the question then became, what if an iron target and a coin were "stacked"? So I posted this picture.....
[attachment 234869 nailonquarter.JPG]

And took a screen shot as the coil passed over them....
[attachment 234870 screenshotnailonquarter.JPG]

You can clearly see the image left by both targets, in their proper FE/CO coordinate range.

The list of possible targets is never ending. The CTX 3030 will identify multiple targets under the coil, simultaneously. If one considers the center "bar" of the DD coil to be the only area considered to be "the detection field of the coil", then the different diameters of unequal targets will not allow that to happen. If they were equal targets, their images will overlap each other on the display.

If you have further questions regarding this matter, I'd encourage you to read the previous posts, as it has been thoroughly discussed. HH Randy

Excellent, concise and well-written. Thank you for taking the time to post this!

 

[Rolladex]

I know it was a joke. I just could not let that slide. Thinking about getting one but did not want to be the $2400 guinea pig. I find it hard to beat the Etrac, so I will sit back and see what everybody finds and go from there. PS I like the controversy and the site.

 

[Gonehunting]

Randy's post is just IMPRESSIVE... I definitely need to get out and hunt more....