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1859 penny

F

flash5153

New member
I found one a few days ago. Its Canadian and could be worth some big money ,,,,if it is brass.

Problem is,,,How do I find out. Called and went to a couple of coin dealers in the area and they dont know chit. Seems they dont want anything to do with it,,wont even look at it.
Its in VF to EF condition and is dark in color. It is either brass or bronze. They both will darken from being in the ground. I know the odds are its bronze but I really need to find out for sure. A brass coin in this condition is red booked at 10,000$ and Bronze - 12$

I scratched it very little from digging it and it sure looks brass in the scratch ,,,to me and a friend of mine.

I want to send it to NGS but need a dealer to do that,,dont know of any that do it. Also just went to their site and didnt see where they grade Canadian coins or a price.
Here's a link about the coin: says it is extremely difficult to tell the difference. http://www.coincommunity.com/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=50792
 
Flash i wish i could give
you info on where to find out about the coin
but im so new I havent had the need yet!!!!

that is a REAL nice coin no matter what

Congrats
isnt brass non metallic???

Ron

RLTW
 
Very nice find !! bronze composition.
Four variation of that coin.
wide 9
narrow 9
double punched narrow 9 type 1
double punched narrow 9 type 2
9,579,000 minted
value ---$2.25 to $4,750
This is from the 2008 North American Coins and Prices guide book.
Good luck that is a minty looker:thumbup:
 
Try this Canadian coin grading forum -- http://www.coincommunity.com/forum/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=138 -- They've got a lot of really good knowledgable people on there and I'm sure they'd be more than happy to help out. Think you have to be a member to post but you can take a look and see what you think before you join. Free of course.
 
Great find. 1859, you're holding a time capsule in your hands everytime you find something that old or older. WTG. Hope it's brass.
 
Great find Flash! hope its what you want it to be!!
 
Cool find. Sorry but it looks like bronze to me. Check out the old Canadian coin I found here in the USA in my latest post. What a surprise!

Chris
 
Maybe I shouldnt pursue it anymore ,,,because you think it is bronze ,,from a picture. lmao

Honestly I think it is bronze also, playing the odds,,, but ,,,,what do I know,,,could be wrong.
 
I wasn't suggesting that you shouldn't check it out. Weigh it. The brass ones were 4.29g the bronze 4.54. There was also a very slight difference in diameter. From your photo it looks like every other Canadian large cent I've ever seem. Bronze. Good luck with it and I hope it's brass.

Chris
 
Wow you have allot of info on this coin..

I read on several sites that there is zero difference in wieght, or size ,and that the composition of each coin, brass /bronze was so close that some composition data acutually overlapped. This is why I wanted to send it in.

This is about the 6th canadian lg cent that I have dug,,yep they all look about the same. But it sure dont have the same look as a U.S Bronze penny.
 
I saw a different article where the author said he had seen bronze specimens that have weighed between 4.4 and 4.8 grams. The article did not give the weight range for the brass version only that it weighed slightly less. It was 1859 and I'm sure quality control was good, but not great. He said weight is not the end all test to tell the difference.

That scratch on yours looks orange-red to me but the photo is pretty low res. US IH cents that were minted brass are sort of white to yellowish. The bronze ones range from brown, to red, to orangish. If you could find a coin that you're sure is bronze you might see if your 1855 rings up on a different notch or VDI number. Just a thought.

Chris
 
Hey Flash. Sorry I haven't been able to post my penny for comparison like I said I would, having camera troubles. Anyway, did you find out if it brass or bronze?
 
No I did not.

Took it to 2 coin dealers ,,they want nothing to do with it. Wont even look at it. lol

1st one told me he has 500 of them coins. He was too smart for me. :wacko: I told him if they are brass they are worth allot. Then he said something like ,,,its only worth what a buyer will pay and if you can find a buyer.

I would have better off taking it to Walmart and asking the greeter if my coin is brass.:rofl:
But I am betting after I left he went and started looking to see if any of his pennies are brass. hmmm on second thought ,,I doubt it.

2nd coin expert and owner of the coin shop. Would not give one minute of his time.Said he does not deal with this coin.

Neither one ever looked at or touched my coin and they are the only 2 I know of within 50 miles.
 
Those coin guys sound like jerks. I guess they needn't worry about your business in the future.

I had a few coins I wanted to have graded and joined PCGS. I think it cost me 80 bucks and I got 4 "free" vouchers for coin grading. This was about four years ago. The stipulation was they wanted all four submissions at one time. Took about a month. I think NGC used to accept direct submissions. You could check and see if they accept this particular coin.

My happy ending was that my 1916D dime was genuine and graded as G-4. Paid $475 for it and was always thinking I'd bought a fake. I had two gold coins graded at that time but I think I had to pay a little extra for them.

Keep us posted.

Chris
 
Did you ever figure it out?

I'm not a metallurgist, but I would assume that the water displacement:weight ratio of brass and bronze is not the same... zinc is less dense than tin, period. A guy from the link you posted said that this wouldn't work due to the low machine tolerances of the time period, but that's not relevant. Assuming you can accurately measure both the weight and volume (using a graduated cylinder) of the coin, and assuming there's no chance that the density of the brass and the density of bronze are overlapping (this shouldn't be possible unless they added a significant amount of nontraditional metals to the alloys), this should be cut and dry.

Why don't you buy a coin from the dealer who said he had 500 of them? Heck, if they're really so cheap, buy two or three. Compare these to one another (especially the weight / water displacement ratio) to get a feel for the probable variation involved, then compare those readings vs. the coin you found. I would also assume that a good metal detector would show a difference... the brass's zinc should show up stronger than the bronze's tin, right?
 
[size=large]it should go with-out saying,"if it turns out your coin is bronze, be sure to inform the two knuckle-heads of it's value"
congrats on your find and thanks for sharing. now i gotta add to page 56 of my lifetime must finds.

HH[/size]
 
Oh!! It would great if this turned out to be brass. I would,,,, for sure ,,,,,let these 2 dealers know. Welll,,,, after buying every coin they have that is similar ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,for cheap. lol
 
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