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13" Ultimate coil for Excalibur
- Thread starter chipmonky
- Start date
Critterhunter
New member
This schematic shows the pin outs on the plug in the right portion of the picture...
[attachment 259607 SovereignOldCoilPre-AmpTransmitDriverCircuitInMachineampCoilPlugPinOuts.jpg]
Make sure you know which end you are looking at in that schematic. It shows the layout as looking at the connector on the back of the control box that the coil plugs into, so the layout when looking head on at your plug is a reverse mirror image. Many coil plugs have the pins numbered on the plastic.
The old pre-amp circuit in early coils pictured in the above schematic used a redundant ground (pins 3 and 6) that I think was eliminated in the pre-amp layout later on with BBS compatible coils. I suspect some coil cables may have this wire, while others either lack the wire or it's not hooked up to anything, or it might even been grounded to the other ground perhaps. I'm thinking this might be why the SEF coils were not IDing with the Insight speaker meter until a jumper was placed on the meter, to perhaps connect both grounds maybe. Been a while since I repaired the plug on my 12x10 coil so I forget off hand if it had a wire for the extra ground or not in the cable, and if it was even hooked up to the plug.
Not that it relates to your question, but that schematic above not only shows the old pre-amp circuit in early coils using a different IC and a slightly different layout, but it also shows the transmit driver circuit in the Sovereign, although I suspect that circuit might be from an older Sovereign and might be different in say the GT perhaps.
Look at the plug on the Ultimate. Should be pin #'s on there, but even if not, match the pins up to the same ones on various coil threads found in the coil sticky on mating an Excalibur to various coils. Then cut your cord, leaving some wire left at the plug so it still has a short length of colored wires attached to it so you know what goes where, and then match the colors in the cable to the proper points to solder up to the proper Excalibur connections on either it's circuit board or by way of the old coil's cable if you just cut that to patch the new coil to.
All the info you need is in the coil sticky thread, probably more so towards the end but also probably others sprinkled through out that sticky too. All coils are going to be using the same pins on the plug for the same connections obviously, so all you have to do is match them up to the proper colors on the back of your coil plug you cut off to figure out which wires in the Ultimate's coil cable go where.
That coil, many say in salt water, mineralized, or EMI environments is not as stable as the 12x10. It was true for me too with the loaner Ultimate I had, but just the same I found it fairly stable in my mineralized beaches and land sites, though I never used it in salt water.
Also, it's not a water proof rated coil due to not being filled with epoxy, so be sure to seal under the coil cable nut with Shoe Goo or something and inspect the coil for any potential pin hole leaks. One breach and the coil might be toast. The kicker too is that that coil cover is rather flimsy so I wouldn't trust it not washing off in water. I'd just spray the bottom of it with 4 or 5 coats of spray on bed liner from a can. Make sure it don't have minerals or metals in it by spraying it thick onto some cardboard first and scanning over it in all metal and disc for any signs of nulling or such. I'd also be sure to spray the sides of the coil too because wear in sand there might cause a breach.
I do the bottom/sides to all my coils to save the hassle of cleaning under them and also a bit more weight at the end of the shaft. Coil covers weigh ounces. 4 or 5 coats of spray on bed liner weighs 10th's of an ounce. When I pick up an Ultimate to replace my loaner I plan to paint it top and bottom with bed liner spray as I hate white coils, but they do make them in black now too if you can find one.
[attachment 259607 SovereignOldCoilPre-AmpTransmitDriverCircuitInMachineampCoilPlugPinOuts.jpg]
Make sure you know which end you are looking at in that schematic. It shows the layout as looking at the connector on the back of the control box that the coil plugs into, so the layout when looking head on at your plug is a reverse mirror image. Many coil plugs have the pins numbered on the plastic.
The old pre-amp circuit in early coils pictured in the above schematic used a redundant ground (pins 3 and 6) that I think was eliminated in the pre-amp layout later on with BBS compatible coils. I suspect some coil cables may have this wire, while others either lack the wire or it's not hooked up to anything, or it might even been grounded to the other ground perhaps. I'm thinking this might be why the SEF coils were not IDing with the Insight speaker meter until a jumper was placed on the meter, to perhaps connect both grounds maybe. Been a while since I repaired the plug on my 12x10 coil so I forget off hand if it had a wire for the extra ground or not in the cable, and if it was even hooked up to the plug.
Not that it relates to your question, but that schematic above not only shows the old pre-amp circuit in early coils using a different IC and a slightly different layout, but it also shows the transmit driver circuit in the Sovereign, although I suspect that circuit might be from an older Sovereign and might be different in say the GT perhaps.
Look at the plug on the Ultimate. Should be pin #'s on there, but even if not, match the pins up to the same ones on various coil threads found in the coil sticky on mating an Excalibur to various coils. Then cut your cord, leaving some wire left at the plug so it still has a short length of colored wires attached to it so you know what goes where, and then match the colors in the cable to the proper points to solder up to the proper Excalibur connections on either it's circuit board or by way of the old coil's cable if you just cut that to patch the new coil to.
All the info you need is in the coil sticky thread, probably more so towards the end but also probably others sprinkled through out that sticky too. All coils are going to be using the same pins on the plug for the same connections obviously, so all you have to do is match them up to the proper colors on the back of your coil plug you cut off to figure out which wires in the Ultimate's coil cable go where.
That coil, many say in salt water, mineralized, or EMI environments is not as stable as the 12x10. It was true for me too with the loaner Ultimate I had, but just the same I found it fairly stable in my mineralized beaches and land sites, though I never used it in salt water.
Also, it's not a water proof rated coil due to not being filled with epoxy, so be sure to seal under the coil cable nut with Shoe Goo or something and inspect the coil for any potential pin hole leaks. One breach and the coil might be toast. The kicker too is that that coil cover is rather flimsy so I wouldn't trust it not washing off in water. I'd just spray the bottom of it with 4 or 5 coats of spray on bed liner from a can. Make sure it don't have minerals or metals in it by spraying it thick onto some cardboard first and scanning over it in all metal and disc for any signs of nulling or such. I'd also be sure to spray the sides of the coil too because wear in sand there might cause a breach.
I do the bottom/sides to all my coils to save the hassle of cleaning under them and also a bit more weight at the end of the shaft. Coil covers weigh ounces. 4 or 5 coats of spray on bed liner weighs 10th's of an ounce. When I pick up an Ultimate to replace my loaner I plan to paint it top and bottom with bed liner spray as I hate white coils, but they do make them in black now too if you can find one.
Critterhunter
New member
Note for above post- Color codes on various coils don't have to match. Nobody uses the same colors for making connections in cables usually. You want to go by the proper pins your particular Ultimate coil's wires were hooked up to, and then find out where those connections should go on either the Excalibur circuit board or to match up properly to the connections on the old coil cable you cut off if you are splicing that to your Ultimate's coil cable.
Refreshing my memory here, so while I'm at it this might be somewhat useful to you in your wiring in gaining some insight about that. Here's the newer version of the pre-amp found in Sovereign compatible coils...
[attachment 259625 NewerSovereignCoilPre-AmpSchematic.jpg]
Note that it lacks the pin 6 extra ground. The #6 you see in the middle of the schematic is numbering one of the pins on the IC and not the wire pins of the cable. The pin out numbers for the coil cable are the ones on the outside parameters of the schematic, using only pins 1 through 4 in the cable as they relate to the end of your coil plug, in what they connect too inside the coil.
Pins 1 & 2 of the coil cable are being outputted from the control box to the coil's TX (transmit) winding. Pin 3 is the current ground used for this newer pre-amp while eliminating 6. And in 4 is the RX (receive) winding's output back to the control box. Pin 5 is the ID output FROM the control box to a any external meter you have plugged in, so a wire for that is probably missing in the coil cable or isn't hooked up to pin 5. No need for it. Same deal with wire for pin 6. It might either not exist or not be hooked up to the pin on the coil plug.
I think maybe this might be why the insight meter that is installed in place of the built in speaker on the Sovereign wasn't IDing with SEF coils. There is a jumper fix for this and maybe it is grounding both ground pins. Maybe the SEFs don't ground both pins or the right one like other coils do, even though the extra ground isn't used for the more modern pre-amp layout found in current coils from various manufacturers?
Some people think the meter somehow is reading the coil since it plugs in between the coil and control box, when in reality the control box is sending a signal back down the coil cable the meter plugged into the control box with so it can read the conductivity voltage level of the target after it's been processed by the machine.
Refreshing my memory here, so while I'm at it this might be somewhat useful to you in your wiring in gaining some insight about that. Here's the newer version of the pre-amp found in Sovereign compatible coils...
[attachment 259625 NewerSovereignCoilPre-AmpSchematic.jpg]
Note that it lacks the pin 6 extra ground. The #6 you see in the middle of the schematic is numbering one of the pins on the IC and not the wire pins of the cable. The pin out numbers for the coil cable are the ones on the outside parameters of the schematic, using only pins 1 through 4 in the cable as they relate to the end of your coil plug, in what they connect too inside the coil.
Pins 1 & 2 of the coil cable are being outputted from the control box to the coil's TX (transmit) winding. Pin 3 is the current ground used for this newer pre-amp while eliminating 6. And in 4 is the RX (receive) winding's output back to the control box. Pin 5 is the ID output FROM the control box to a any external meter you have plugged in, so a wire for that is probably missing in the coil cable or isn't hooked up to pin 5. No need for it. Same deal with wire for pin 6. It might either not exist or not be hooked up to the pin on the coil plug.
I think maybe this might be why the insight meter that is installed in place of the built in speaker on the Sovereign wasn't IDing with SEF coils. There is a jumper fix for this and maybe it is grounding both ground pins. Maybe the SEFs don't ground both pins or the right one like other coils do, even though the extra ground isn't used for the more modern pre-amp layout found in current coils from various manufacturers?
Some people think the meter somehow is reading the coil since it plugs in between the coil and control box, when in reality the control box is sending a signal back down the coil cable the meter plugged into the control box with so it can read the conductivity voltage level of the target after it's been processed by the machine.
Critterhunter
New member
Sorry, was testing something in the text editor to see how it works here...
Critterhunter
New member
Real gold coin?! If so, fantastic find there! I'd be hunting in pin point mode and digging all deep whispers for sure if I knew some of those were lurking about.
SEF coils- Again, check the coil sticky, as I think there are thread links to the color codes on their wires. I posted a thread a couple years back on the proper wire colors/pins on the 12x10 when I fixed a used one I bought that I knew had a short in the cable right behind the plug. Try searing for SEF color codes or something like that, ALL WORDS, ANY DATE. Might be links to that info in the coil sticky though. I think somebody had posted a chart of various coil's and their color codes, and how those related to the Excalibur's coil cable colors as well. Pretty sure I linked one or two of those threads too in the coil sticky.
SEF coils- Again, check the coil sticky, as I think there are thread links to the color codes on their wires. I posted a thread a couple years back on the proper wire colors/pins on the 12x10 when I fixed a used one I bought that I knew had a short in the cable right behind the plug. Try searing for SEF color codes or something like that, ALL WORDS, ANY DATE. Might be links to that info in the coil sticky though. I think somebody had posted a chart of various coil's and their color codes, and how those related to the Excalibur's coil cable colors as well. Pretty sure I linked one or two of those threads too in the coil sticky.
Critterhunter
New member
By the way, the SEF 15x12- I had one. Not as deep in my mineralized soils as the stock 10" Tornado on coin/ring sized targets. Taking up too much ground signal I suspect and washing out targets at depth, even though it was stable at very high sensitivity settings...I found lowering sensitivity seemed to improve depth or at least ID/tone at depth, well below what was max stable sensitivity for it. In my mineralized sands though it did appear to get more depth than the stock 10" Tornado on coin/ring sized targets.
12x10 for me is deeper on coin/ring sized stuff on both land and in the sand. Both SEFs I found too much drag in the water for my tastes though, so the 10" Tornado is my water rig coil, and I prefer the 12x10 in every respect for land or dry sand so it stays on my land rig.
You might also look into the Sunray S-12 coil. Many Excalibur guys seem to love it for water hunting, and I suspect it's because of it's round shape not really being any more drag than the 10" Tornado. I've used a loaner on land but prefer the 12x10 for various reasons. Might pick up a used S-12 to try in the water on my water rig for more coverage though, but I don't think it appears as deep in *my soil* as the 10" Tornado. If it doesn't show me more depth than the Tornado in my sands/waters, I might still use it in the water for more coverage on certain days when covering ground is primary over depth.
You've got a WOT already. Many love that coil for beach/water hunting. The S-12, like the SEFs, are a good bit lighter though it appears. In the water that won't matter though. All about drag...
12x10 for me is deeper on coin/ring sized stuff on both land and in the sand. Both SEFs I found too much drag in the water for my tastes though, so the 10" Tornado is my water rig coil, and I prefer the 12x10 in every respect for land or dry sand so it stays on my land rig.
You might also look into the Sunray S-12 coil. Many Excalibur guys seem to love it for water hunting, and I suspect it's because of it's round shape not really being any more drag than the 10" Tornado. I've used a loaner on land but prefer the 12x10 for various reasons. Might pick up a used S-12 to try in the water on my water rig for more coverage though, but I don't think it appears as deep in *my soil* as the 10" Tornado. If it doesn't show me more depth than the Tornado in my sands/waters, I might still use it in the water for more coverage on certain days when covering ground is primary over depth.
You've got a WOT already. Many love that coil for beach/water hunting. The S-12, like the SEFs, are a good bit lighter though it appears. In the water that won't matter though. All about drag...
