10X12 SEF

[FreeMan08]

hello
I know this has probably already been beat to death, but Kellyco has the 10X12 SEF butterfly coil on sale for $169.95 and I'm thinking about jumping on it for my Sovereign GT. My question is,...is there enough of an advantage over the 10" Tornado coil that I'm using to justify the cost. All of my hunting is on wet sand beaches. If someone can help it will be greatly appreciated. regards and tanx
Ed

 

[Critterhunter]

So far the 12x10 looks deeper for me than the stock 10" Tornado but I have more tests to do yet. It for sure is more stable/quiet and allows higher sensitivity settings in high mineral area for me than the stock coil. Read this thread...

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?21,1293994,page=1

Also, I had the 15x12 (there is another thread for that) and it was very deep in the sand. Deeper than the 12x10? I don't know yet, but I wanted depth on land for old coins and in that case the 15x12 got less depth than the stock 10" coil due to the high mineral soil I hunt. However, my sand is also mineralized and for some reason the 15x12 did go deeper in the sand than the stock coil while not on land. The 12x10 appears deeper on land than the stock coil but haven't used it on the beach enough to know if it's as deep there as the 15x12.

 

[FreeMan08]

Thanks for the fast response Critterhunter. I was glad to hear you thought the 10X12 went a little deeper. Even a little deeper can mean getting finds others are missing. Your reviews on the other links are fantastic. I called Kellyco and ordered the coil. I only needed a little nudge to pull the trigger. I should have it by Friday, just in time for a forcasted snow storm. Thanks for your help and regards
Ed

 

[Brawler_7]

I have been following this 12x10 vs the tornado debate for a while now and I am still waiting for some real scientific testing from critterhunter before I invest in one. A good place to start would be to do a simple air test, change coils while keeping all of the other settings the same. Try different sensitivity levels. Also it would be nice to use different size targets, at least 3 types, a US dime, a US silver dollar and a soda can. This would give us a good idea which coil is more sensitive and what is the maximum depth it can achieve. It won't tell us the truth about how deep it will go in the ground, but it will not be more then an air test. Anyone who still believes that a detector can go deeper in the ground then in the air on a nonferrous target is misinformed.To see if one coil loses more depth in the ground then the other you would have to run some tests in the ground.

The next step would be to dig a hole about 15" deep and place a dime 5-8 inches into the wall of the hole using a knife so that the ground above remains undisturbed, one can do it at 12" deep and see if either coil will pick it up. Then move to 10", and so on. I predict that the Sovereign can probably hit a dime in this kind of test at about 9-11 inches, depending on soil conditions.

I really hope that critterhunter can do it, he is very meticulous when it comes to testing so I would believe his results, I remember his pultab conductivity chart was great.

BUT SOMONE FINALY NEEDS TO TEST THESE 2 COILS SIDE BY SIDE! At least do an air test and put the results up in a chart or graph form if possible, like this. The chart below is for 3 different CZ coils, with my CZ3D that I sold a while back.

 

[Critterhunter]

Charts....I love charts. Man after my own heart. Yea, I still need to do more 12x10 versus 10" Tornado tests. If you remember a while back I did some in ground testing of the two coils and with the sensitivity set at 3PM the stock coil wouldn't respond (or at least get a good ID...can't remember...see the 12x10 thread) while the 12x10 was hitting the target. That alone told me the 12x10 appears deeper at the same sensitivity settings than the stock coil. With the cold weather at hand I plan to do some more tests comparing these two coils. So far from field use I can say that I appear to be digging wheats deeper at sites that I plain out missed with the stock coil. Regardless, for the dry conditions I know the 12x10 was popping wheats deeper on a regular basis than the stock coil would do. But, there is something to be said for controlled testing. I like setting things up so that I can compare the coils to known factors and then judge results based on that.

In summary so far...The 15x12 did not appear deeper for me on land at my medium to high mineral sites than the stock coil. I attribute this to it seeing more ground matrix, thus degrading the target quality. Note that that does not mean it couldn't be run at higher sensitivity settings than stock on many occasions, just that the quality of the signal seemed to be degraded by the larger ground matrix the coil was seeing. In mineralized sand on my fresh water beaches, though, the 15x12 was much deeper than the stock coil. For that reason if your primary target is beach hunting then I would opt for the 15x12 over the 12x10. Don't know yet if the 15x12 is deeper than it on the beach, but even if the 12x10 is as deep or deeper in the sand the coverage of the 15x12 is fantastic. That being said, the 12x10's coverage beach hunting is still an improvement over the stock coil. I would not use the 15x12 in the water. It was too much drag for me. I suspect the 12x10's drag in the water would be no worse that you could tell than the stock coil or the S-12.

As said, thus far the 12x10 appears deepest on land for me than either above coils. In the sand it also seems deeper than the stock coil. I feel it is more stable, quiet, allows higher sensitivity settings, pinpoints better, separates better, and so on than the stock coil. The 15x12, using the base of the "V" at the tip or tail of the coil, is just as easy as the 12x10 to pinpoint with. Actually I find I can pinpoint with either one of these coils better than the stock coil, which I also use the tip or tail of to PP. The 15x12 was sensitive to tiny targets. The 12x10 appears even more sensitive to tiny stuff. That might be important if you are hunting chains. Both of these coils seem to false off of iron less than the stock coil. They are very stable and quiet. The 12x10 appears to change the audio of the Sovereign to me, making all targets sound a bit higher in pitch and crisper.

I will be doing some further in field comparisons of these two coils and some air testing as well to post. I want to compare them on some buried targets in sand as well as more land testing. Also some coins on edge because I feel both these SEF coils hit coins at odd angles better than the stock coil. Some mask testing is also in order.

By the way, I think somebody from Kellyco mentioned a while back that if you mention FindMall you get free shipping on the coil, which I think saves like $14 or so. The coil is always "on sale" for $169 (the 12x10).

 

[FreeMan08]

I have a coin garden in my yard with a number of different items buried. When I get my new coil I'll do a test with the 10" tornado and the 10x12" SEF. I know what kind of hits I get with the 10", so I should be able to tell if there's a difference. Not very scientific, but will be a real world test for me.
Regards
Ed

 

[Brawler_7]

Great, I will be watching this space! Thanks guys!

 

[Critterhunter]

Please post that info in the 12x10 thread when you do! I've got a coin garden but I wasn't thinking when I made it...Right under some power lines. I need to do some on site comparisons where there is no RF activity.

 

[Brawler_7]

Post it here as well, so it's easier to find.

 

[FreeMan08]

Please post that info in the 12x10 thread when you do! I've got a coin garden but I wasn't thinking when I made it...Right under some power lines. I need to do some on site comparisons where there is no RF activity.

Don't feel bad Critterhunter, this is my second coin garden. The first one I put down back and to the side of the yard. It was great until my neighbor buried the wires for his dog's invisible fence The new one is on the other side of the yard now. The best laid plans of mice and men.........................